arosin

This Coin Will Be Machine Doubling Or Double Die

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grnwavdav

Looks like a true Doubled Die to me. But I'm no expert.

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Captainkirk

The doubling is flat and shelf-like and ccw of the letters, so I am GUESSING rotated hub doubling. I am not an expert on this.

foundinrolls

Flat and shelf like would be signs of machine doubling damage, so I am guessing you have the concept backwards:-)

Have Fun,
Bill

foundinrolls

It's a doubled die but it is important to note that many of these types of coins from Argentina minted during that period were doubled dies.

It's kinda like the 1904 "Panama Pill", (2 1/2 Centesimos). Many of them are doubled dies.

I know it's two different countries, the point is that doubled dies are common on some series of coins from some countries.

So.... they are doubled dies and they are neat finds but they aren't necessarily scarce.

Thanks,
Bill

Isaiah

doubled die definitely.

KurtS

Hi,
I just dropped in and noticed your coin. I think I'm seeing signs of a DD by serif separation at least in a few places:

Conder101

Definitely looks like Machine Doubling Damage.

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KurtS

Really? Certainly the low relief of the secondary impression suggests that to me too. So I'll admit I easily made a wrong call on the notching noted below...because I don't know this coin.

jazzcoins

The coin is no double die it's a mix of die deterioration doubling ,and some machine doubling if you notice the mushy appperance on the tip of the letters that's DDD look close to the letters you also can see some shelf like doubling machine doubling The images don't look like clear raised images there mushy.,and look at the E there's doubling on both sides and the tip of the C of it ,a clear indication of DDD I don't really see and significant notching of the letters either.No doubled die to me
Jazzcoins Joe

KurtS

I see the die deterioration now...thanks for helping sharpen my skills.

foundinrolls

Kurt,

Don't let these guys throw you. You are seeing separation and notches where they belong. despite what others think, I know this to be a doubled die, I have other examples from Argentina that match with these. For foreign error coin folks, like the panama pill, this series is noted for Doubled Dies.

Like the 1909 VDB Lincoln cent DDO, this coin has ,what is known as, flat top lettering. The doubling looks flat as the style of lettering dictates that. The notches are there and there is a nice separation in one of the pictures on the upper part of a letter C. There is so much separation that there is grime in the space caused by the separation. it's a DDO :-)
Thanks,
Bill

jazzcoins

I don't know what your seeing Bill i disagree with you there is doubling on both sides of the letters which may not be a double die mushy and distorted appearance I must say there is alot of grime both look real close to the letter e in the Pic . Well this coin may exhibit a DD and DDD and MD considering there looks like nothching on the R ,but I'm kind of skeptical about it ,because there is to much die deterioration doubling on the coin.

I don't understand why you are saying to other coin talk guys here, don't let these guys throw you off There are others here that have alot of knowledge like condor 101 There;s no reason to say something like that just give your opinion on the coin that would be more civil like.or just say I disagree. I never said I was an expert , but i have alot of knowledge.and these are just opinions ,you can never really tell by pics with dd unless you have it in hand,because sometimes pics don't tell the true story.I think the notching is from the spreading of the die errosin and giving the apperarence since this coin exhibits mucho die deterioration and some machine doubling.




Thanks Jazzcoins Joe



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KurtS

Well...I took another look, and what if both are right?
I know FoundinRolls from other forums, and trust his experience/ judgment more than my own.
Double hubbing and die deterioration can co-exist on the same die, after all.

I'm new here. I collect primarily die varieties, and stare at a lot of coins under scopes. So, whenever I see confusing details like these, I like to reduce the problem to questions like: "what physical processes can explain the details I see?". Here we might have several processes at work, where one alone might not explain all the details present. So just going by the photo, I cannot think of any process besides a doubled die for the distinct serif notching I see in the E. Just a thought.

jazzcoins

I WILL GIVE MY FINALE CONCLUSION ON THIS COIN The coin exhibits Die Deterioration doubling, and Machine doubling and a double die. You asked if, what if both are right well we are. I just see some form of notching on the R maybe, but the other letters don't really indicate that like the C ,there's doubling on both sides of that letter an mushy there's no other notchung that i can see , that;s why like i said i'm still skrptical about it
Jazzcoins Joe