The MS67 Morgan Dollar (Grades within a Grade)

Lehigh96 · 08-21-2008, 01:00 AM

This thread was inspired by the debate started in my recent thread "Guess the Grade--NGC 1881-S Morgan Dollar." I found it unusual that most of the forum members undergraded the coin by 2-3 grades compared to the assigned grade by NGC. I have determined that the best way to learn how to grade coins is to view as many coins with the same grade as you can for a particular issue. I have also found that learning to grade coins from photos (as best you can) is extremely important since that is how I purchase most of my coins.

In this exercise I will attempt to demonstrate the subtleties of the MS67 grade for 1881-S Morgan Dollars. I will do this by posting a progression of MS67 NGC graded Morgans (All photos courtesy of Heritage Auctions). The progression will be as follows:

The Market Graded MS67
The Low End MS67
The Good for the Grade MS67
The PQ MS67
The Low End MS68

Before we can analyze the coins, we need to examine the requirements for reaching an MS67 grade. From PCGS's "The Official Guide to Coin Grading and Counterfeit Detection," and MS67 must be virtually as struck with minor imperfections, very well struck. Now what is a minor imperfection? The truth is that I don't really know since I didn't write the book. I can only apply the term to what I have seen graded MS67 by NGC and PCGS. From my experience, it is a surface imperfection that is barely noticeable with the naked eye in the focal areas. We must also note that the focal areas with regards to surface marks are the face (including chin) and the date on the obverse and the breast on the reverse.

The Market Graded MS67

This coin is absolutely stunning at first glance. A razor sharp strike, semi-prooflike fields, gleaming luster and phenomenal rainbow toning. However, the imperfections on the cheek are certainly noticeable to the naked eye. Quite simply, this coin is an MS66 that was Market Graded to an MS67* because of phenomenal strike, luster, and eye appeal. The surface of the coin plainly fails to meet the standard for an MS67, but the other elements of the grade make it market acceptable as an MS67.

The Low End MS67

This coin has several barely noticeable imperfections in both the fields and the focal area of the face. If we compare this coin with the market graded example, it is definitely cleaner but lacks the same overall eye appeal. This coin meets the criteria for an MS67 grade, but due to the number of imperfections present, it will be a low end MS67 example.

Good for the Grade MS67

This coin is the same coin from the other thread that Richie described almost perfectly. If you recall, he correctly noted that the reverse is prooflike and the obverse is frosty. NGC routinely awards the star designation for these coins. He graded the coin an MS68*, but it is actually an MS67*. The reason this coin could not reach the lofty 68 status is due to the two very minor imperfections on the cheek. Otherwise, the coin is almost flawless. Those two tiny little imperfections in the focal area of the coin were enough to limit the grade of this incredibly beautiful superb gem. There is absolutely no doubt that this coin has better surfaces than the low end MS67 and the other elements of the grade (strike, luster, eye appeal) are equally as impressive. A good for the grade MS67 for sure. If the imperfections were in the fields, this coin would most likely have been issued an MS68 grade.

PQ MS67

A blast white and apparently perfect Morgan Dollar. Without close scrutiny, this coin appears to be an MS68 for sure. The only noticeable imperfection is a dimple to the left of the hair above the jawline. Otherwise the coin is essentially flawless. If you can't see the imperfection, visit this link and click for the larger photo.
http://coins.ha.com/common/view_item..._No=2477#photo

This is by far the most impressive coin seen yet. The low end MS67 had numerous minor imperfections, the good for the grade had two, and this PQ example has only one. With regards to strike, luster, and eye appeal, well lets put it this way, I would have bought this coin in a heartbeat if I had seen it, and I only collect rainbow toned coins. The owner of this coin got a specimen of this quality for $800. IMO, this coin should be graded and MS68 and the coin is worth 3-4X what the winner of this auction paid. But my opinion doesn't count, NGC's does, and they decided not to award the MS68 because of the imperfection in the focal area.

Low End MS68

And finally we come to the end of the progression with the low end MS68 (my coin). There is a minor imperfection to the left of the neck in the obverse field. In addition, the fields show scatter luster grazes which give the coin an unclean appearance. Still, excellent strike, very nice toning, and incredible luster meet the requirements for an MS68 grade by NGC. Which coin would you rather have, the PQ MS67 or my low end MS68. We know my answer because I love the toners, but to each their own.

Now that we have examined each coin based on its merits in relation to the guidelines for the established grade and in comparison with each other. Please indulge me by starting with the market graded MS67 and slowly scrolling down to view the other photos. When you do this, you can see clearly the grades within the grade. I hope this thread has been either educational or entertaining. If it has not, at least you got to see some really cool high end Morgan Dollars.

PS, I believe that John Albanese should offer me money for this post.

CamaroDMD · 08-21-2008, 02:06 AM

Awesome post Paul! I think you put a lot of great info in this and it is quite helpful for those of us who are trying to learn how to grade better. Thank you!

I have one thing to add though. You mention that PQ MS67 Morgan was held back from an MS68 because of that one minor dimple like mark on her cheek. I know that you feel that this coin deserves MS68 (and I agree) but I see what looks like a similar mark on your coin? I have circled it below. Is that a minor hit (like on the PQ MS67) or is it just a light affect? Regardless, both coins are suburb. If it is a mark in the focal area, and therefore these coins are in fact nearly identical in quality...do you think the toning on yours is what made the jump from a high end 67 to a lower 68?

Also, what exactly does PQ mean? I know what it means based on the context that I have seen it in. But, what specifically does it stand for?

**TheNoost** · 08-21-2008, 02:20 AM

premium quality for the grade, I think

Lehigh96 · 08-21-2008, 02:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichieB16

Awesome post Paul! I think you put a lot of great info in this and it is quite helpful for those of us who are trying to learn how to grade better. Thank you!

I have one thing to add though. You mention that PQ MS67 Morgan was held back from an MS68 because of that one minor dimple like mark on her cheek. I know that you feel that this coin deserves MS68 (and I agree) but I see what looks like a similar mark on your coin? I have circled it below. Is that a minor hit (like on the PQ MS67) or is it just a light affect? Regardless, both coins are suburb. If it is a mark in the focal area, and therefore these coins are in fact nearly identical in quality...do you think the toning on yours is what made the jump from a high end 67 to a lower 68?

Also, what exactly does PQ mean? I know what it means based on the context that I have seen it in. But, what specifically does it stand for?

I can't figure out what that is on my coin. It is not a contact mark as there is no depth or displacement of the metal. It only shows under certain light angles. I stated that NGC thinks my coin is an MS68. I think it is a PQ (Premium Quality) MS67 in an MS68 holder. If it is a 68, it is definitely low end for the grade. The toning on this coin is very nice, but not enough to bump the grade. The luster is incredible, but IMO, it darn well should be at this grade, so I don't think that would bump the grade either.

I actually have an 1881-S MS67 to compare the coin to, but the toning on my 67 is so deep that is makes any comparison difficult. This is the Heritage photo of my MS67 from a few years ago before Heritage upgraded their photography equipment.

kanga · 08-21-2008, 11:37 AM

If I'm grading MS coins from an image, I can almost guarantee that I'll be low.
Coin-in-hand is the ONLY way to properly grade MS coins.

coleguy · 08-21-2008, 01:26 PM

Very interesting post. It makes me wonder how any Morgans ever grade above 67 though. If those slight imperfections are what is really holding them back, it's no wonder the pop reports are so minimal in higher grades for the series. Some of those marks were probably made the very second they were ejected from the coining machines, which in my opinion isn't wear or circulation damage, or even bag marks, but normal strike imperfections. But, thats just me.

Keep the great info coming.
Guy~

Collect89 · 08-21-2008, 02:21 PM

That PQ MS67 looks like it has the razor sharp detail and completely mark free surfaces normally only seen on proofs and flashy luster of a business strike. Seldom seen together. Thanks for the photo collection & great discussion(s).
Very best regards,
collect89

BTW- I like toning but the photo of the PQ MS67 is just great.

Phoenix21 · 08-21-2008, 07:43 PM

Very interesting, thanks for the info!

Phoenix

Lehigh96 · 08-21-2008, 11:12 PM

OK, Let's make this thread really fun. I want everyone to guess what each of these coins sold for at auction. I did not look at the prices when I downloaded the photos so I will make my guess after we have some responses. I will tell you that current Numismedia Wholesale is $800 for an 1881-S Morgan Dollar. Please list your responses like this:

Market Graded MS67: $XXX
Low End MS67: $XXX
Good for grade MS67: $XXX
PQ MS67: $XXX
My MS67 sold for: $1,035 (February 2007)

BTW. I really hope my guess for the Market Graded MS67 is the closest since that is my niche. No cheating either guys.

Phoenix21 · 08-21-2008, 11:16 PM

Hmm, I'll just stab in the dark:

#1: $783
#2:$867
#3:$1,024
#4: $984
#5: $1,200

Just random guesses.

Phoenix

Lehigh96 · 08-21-2008, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phoenix21

Hmm, I'll just stab in the dark:

#1: $783
#2:$867
#3:$1,024
#4: $984
#5: $1,200

Just random guesses.

Phoenix

Pheonix,

What is the #5 guess for. I listed the price of my coin @ $1,035

Phoenix21 · 08-21-2008, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lehigh96

Pheonix,

What is the #5 guess for. I listed the price of my coin @ $1,035

Oops, did too many. I forgot you said that, and what I did is I took a look at each coin, scrolled down, and typed in my guess at the price. Then I'd go back up and do the same thing again. Didn't take into mind what you posted. Sorry.

Phoenix

**zaneman** · 08-22-2008, 12:02 AM

1. 850
2. 720
3. 700
4. 750

Lehigh96 · 08-22-2008, 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zaneman

1. 850
2. 720
3. 700
4. 750

Is that right?

Market Graded MS67---$850
Low End MS67---------$720
Good for Grade MS67---$700
PQ MS67---------------$750

I think we have a toning fan here.

CamaroDMD · 08-22-2008, 12:47 AM

OK, here are my guesses:
MG MS67: $750
LE MS67: $725
GG MS67: $900
PQ MS67: $800 (because you said so in the post

)

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