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08-07-2008, 12:40 PM
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#1 (permalink)
| | Coin Collector
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 1,704
My Mood: | Trivia: Pattern Goloid Dollars - Huh? You know Morgan designed the Silver Dollar minted in 1878 and you know the obverse and reverse designs selected AND you know the composition. You, also, know there were two reverses (7 tail feathers, 8 tail feathers), but do you know what other designs were proposed for the Silver Dollar and the composition they might have been?
I'm talking about the "Pattern Dollars" produced from 1878 through1880.
I'm sure you know "Pattern Dollars" were struck in copper, silver, aluminum, lead and white metal, but do you know some were struck in Goloid? Goloid is an alloy of silver, gold and copper patented by Dr. William Wheeler Hubbell on May 22, 1877 (U.S. patent #191,146). The patent specifies 1 part gold (about 3.6%), 24 parts silver (about 87.3%), and 2.5 parts copper (about 9.1%, all by weight); however, the patent also states that "The proportions may be slightly varied" and goes on to specify that the silver portion can range from 20 times to 30 times that of the gold, and the copper could range from one-eighth to one-twelfth (from 12.5% to 8.33%) of the total mixture. The patent specifies that the metals be separately melted, then mixed, along with "sodium sulphate or potassium sulphate" in the amount of one part sulfate to one thousand parts metal. The alloy, in varying proportions (sometimes slightly out of these specifications), was used by the United States Mint to strike pattern dollars, sometimes called "metric dollars" (some were marked with "metric" in the coin design).
In the end, Goloid was rejected as a coinage metal because it could not be distinguished from the normal U.S. 90% silver coin alloy without chemical analysis, thus inviting counterfeiters to use silver-copper alloys alone to make lower-value copies.
This trivia covers only " what-might-have-been" Goloid Pattern Dollars.
Hope you enjoy (most photos courtesy of uspatterns.com):
This first Goloid Dollar was designed by Charles E. Barber (Barber Dimes, Quarters and Half Dollars).
Its Judd Number is J1557: http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c...s_2009_7484617.
This 2nd Goloid Dollar of 1878 is listed by Judd as J1562. This design is considered the highest polished Dollar created: http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c...s_2009_7964370
Shown next is Barber's third design for 1878 (Judd 1653): http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c...s_2009_8259261
This pattern Dollar designed by William Barber is thought to have been executed by Barber's son, Charles.
Judd 1617 (This is a "metric Dollar" design): http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c..._2009_17957315
NOTE: The obverse on the "metric Dollar" (Large Head) is similar to the one used on the $50 Half Union patterns. Here's a bonus to this Trivia (Judd 1548): http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c...s_2009_5262787
This Dollar pattern was designed by Morgan and is considered by many to be one of the uglier designs struck by our mint:
Judd 1622: http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c..._2009_18162310
This one uses William Barber's obverse of 1878, but changes the reverse (100 Cents).
Judd 1629: http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c..._2009_18269139
This one features George T. Morgan's coiled hair design similar to the design used on $4 Gold Stellas.
Judd 1633: http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c..._2009_18391516
As a bonus to you here's the $4 Gold Stella mentioned: http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c..._2009_19254671
And now for the Goloid PatternDollars of 1880:
Judd 1645: http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c..._2009_20977512
Judd 1648: http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c..._2009_21154378
Judd1651: http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c..._2009_21328423
This one (Judd 1656) is a repeat of Morgan's Coiled hair design used in 1879: http://us.st12.yimg.com/us.st.yimg.c..._2009_21519280 NOTE: All patterns pictured in this trivia are really Essais!
Surprised? I hope so....
Clinker |
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08-07-2008, 06:56 PM
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#2 (permalink)
| | I'M LEGEND
Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Republic Of India
Posts: 1,751
My Mood: |
Nice one Clinker.
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08-08-2008, 11:32 AM
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#3 (permalink)
| | Coin Collector
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 1,704
My Mood: | kidromeo Quote:
Originally Posted by kidromeo Nice one Clinker. | A " GOOD DAY" to you kidromeo. Thanks for your comment AND
" THANKS" for the "Post of the week" nomination...
Clinker
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08-08-2008, 12:29 PM
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#4 (permalink)
| | Supporter**
Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Michigan
Posts: 8,004
My Mood: |  very interesting!!!!
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08-08-2008, 12:33 PM
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#5 (permalink)
| | Coin Collector
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 1,704
My Mood: | Daggarjon Quote:
Originally Posted by Daggarjon  very interesting!!!! | Have a great "numismatic day" and thanks for the comment...
Clinker
Last edited by Clinker; 08-08-2008 at 12:35 PM.
Reason: Error in lrtters
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08-08-2008, 09:11 PM
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#6 (permalink)
| | huldufolk
Join Date: May 2008 Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,281
My Mood: |
You burst my bubble. I thought my gold silver copper coin idea was original. idn't know you had to add other chemicals though. Thanks for the info.
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08-11-2008, 10:38 AM
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#7 (permalink)
| | Coin Collector
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 1,704
My Mood: | TheNoost Quote:
Originally Posted by TheNoost You burst my bubble. I thought my gold silver copper coin idea was original. idn't know you had to add other chemicals though. Thanks for the info. | Thanks for your first comments on one of my trivia posts....appreciate it...
Clinker
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01-10-2009, 08:23 PM
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#8 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 8
My Mood: |
Hello all, i'm new to this forum and joined today. I have come across some coins and doing research and that is how i found this site. It seems that some of the coins are pattern coins that i have found. Are they pattern coins worth something?
Thank you
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01-10-2009, 08:58 PM
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#9 (permalink)
| | Coin Collector
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 1,704
My Mood: | To gamrster Quote:
Originally Posted by gamster Hello all, i'm new to this forum and joined today. I have come across some coins and doing research and that is how i found this site. It seems that some of the coins are pattern coins that i have found. Are they pattern coins worth something?
Thank you | Probably scarce or rare depending on denomination, grade and composition...
Clinker
Last edited by Clinker; 01-10-2009 at 09:00 PM.
Reason: spellomg error
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01-10-2009, 09:17 PM
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#10 (permalink)
| | Internet Connections
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Greater Metro Michigan
Posts: 851
My Mood: | Quote:
Originally Posted by gamster Are they pattern coins worth something?
Thank you | Typically, they are outside the price range of most collectors. They sell in the thousands to tens of thousands of dollars.
One reason is sheer rarity. Many of these are unique. Most are known in only in single digits.
The other reason is desireability. Typically struck one-up under the direct supervision of the engraver or Mint Superintendent, they tend to be truly perfect without the hokey look of a "cameo."
And they tell the story of how the circulating coins came to be. Even the ones that never became circulating coins demonstrate the evolution of the elements -- the Liberty, Eagle, mottoes -- found on the regular issues.
__________________ Mike M
Michael E. Marotta
ANA MSNS CSNS |
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01-10-2009, 10:33 PM
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#11 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 8
My Mood: | Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarotta However, these and others are available for viewing at the Pattern Collectors website, www.uspatterns.com
The site is run by Saul Teichman who did the technical research for the new edition of United States Pattern Coins by Dr. J. Hewitt Judd, ed. Q. David Bowers, 10th ed, 2009, 341 pages, $39.95. For most of us, this lovely and affordable book must stand in for the Seated Cent, the Amazonian Patterns, the Schoolgirl, and the Martha Washington Dollar of 1999 that we will never own. | Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarotta Typically, they are outside the price range of most collectors. They sell in the thousands to tens of thousands of dollars.
One reason is sheer rarity. Many of these are unique. Most are known in only in single digits.
The other reason is desireability. Typically struck one-up under the direct supervision of the engraver or Mint Superintendent, they tend to be truly perfect without the hokey look of a "cameo."
And they tell the story of how the circulating coins came to be. Even the ones that never became circulating coins demonstrate the evolution of the elements -- the Liberty, Eagle, mottoes -- found on the regular issues. | thanks for the response, i'm getting the feeling that the ones i have may be replicas. however, they are not marked anyway copy or replica...i may take one to coin dealer to check them out. would be great if they were authentic
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01-10-2009, 08:37 PM
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#12 (permalink)
| | Internet Connections
Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Greater Metro Michigan
Posts: 851
My Mood: | Quote:
Originally Posted by Clinker | Quote:
Sorry, Forbidden.
You don't have permission to access this URL on this server.
Please check the URL for proper spelling and capitalization. If you're having trouble locating a destination on Yahoo!, try visiting the Yahoo! home page or look through a list of Yahoo!'s online services. Also, you may find what you're looking for if you try searching below.
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However, these and others are available for viewing at the Pattern Collectors website, www.uspatterns.com
The site is run by Saul Teichman who did the technical research for the new edition of United States Pattern Coins by Dr. J. Hewitt Judd, ed. Q. David Bowers, 10th ed, 2009, 341 pages, $39.95. For most of us, this lovely and affordable book must stand in for the Seated Cent, the Amazonian Patterns, the Schoolgirl, and the Martha Washington Dollar of 1999 that we will never own.
__________________ Mike M
Michael E. Marotta
ANA MSNS CSNS |
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01-10-2009, 09:03 PM
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#13 (permalink)
| | Coin Collector
Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 1,704
My Mood: | To mmarotta: Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarotta However, these and others are available for viewing at the Pattern Collectors website, www.uspatterns.com
The site is run by Saul Teichman who did the technical research for the new edition of United States Pattern Coins by Dr. J. Hewitt Judd, ed. Q. David Bowers, 10th ed, 2009, 341 pages, $39.95. For most of us, this lovely and affordable book must stand in for the Seated Cent, the Amazonian Patterns, the Schoolgirl, and the Martha Washington Dollar of 1999 that we will never own. | Been a long time since this article was posted, but I thank you for the addendum..
Clinker
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01-10-2009, 10:32 PM
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#14 (permalink)
| | Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 8
My Mood: | Quote:
Originally Posted by mmarotta However, these and others are available for viewing at the Pattern Collectors website, www.uspatterns.com
The site is run by Saul Teichman who did the technical research for the new edition of United States Pattern Coins by Dr. J. Hewitt Judd, ed. Q. David Bowers, 10th ed, 2009, 341 pages, $39.95. For most of us, this lovely and affordable book must stand in for the Seated Cent, the Amazonian Patterns, the Schoolgirl, and the Martha Washington Dollar of 1999 that we will never own. |
Thanks for the link to the sit.
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01-12-2009, 09:44 AM
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#15 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,448
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The Chinese have been putting out a group of counterfeit pattern trade dollars, most notably the Seated Liberty with globe version.
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