davidh

Is it possible for a weakly struck coin, missing some detail, to grade higher that about MS 60-62, or so?

It's my understanding that part of the grade given to a coin is related to the details of the design. For instance, if an otherwise pristine, unmarked, uncirculated and untouched coin such as a 1921 Peace Dollar was missing hair and feather details and the lettering blended into the field, could it be given a top rating?

GDJMSP

That depends on what you call a top rating. But coins with weak strikes are often graded MS65. Higher than that can happen, but not real often.

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rzage

Definateley , though it would prevent it from some of the better grades , my guess would be that it couldn't be a MS-65 or higher but I could be wrong .
rzage

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rlm's cents

Absolutely possible. Just look at the 1922 Lincolns. Particularly the weak reverses that may not even have wheat lines visible, but they will grade as high as 64.

Bonedigger

So a 'Strong Strike' of the dies to the planchet would theoretically (all other factors were the same) result in a higher graded coin?

Take Care
Ben

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rzage

I think it's posible on a weak struck series like SLQs to raise the grade ' so theoretically it could happen on any set .
rzage

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GDJMSP

In some cases yes. But there are those cases where it might still be the same grade, even if it did have stronger strike. There's no hard fast rule for this.

For example, and I'm talking of the '21 Peace here since it was brought up, you could have 2 coins where marks, luster, eye appeal etc were equal but one had a slightly better strike than the other. But both coins had too many marks or the luster wasn;t quite good enough to make 66 - both coins would grade 65.

However, if you take 2 other coins, one with a good strike and one with a weak strike, and the one with the weak strike had the qualifications in all criteria except strike to make 66 - then it would be graded 65. And if the quality of strike on the other one was good enough to make 66 then it would be graded 66 because it did have a good enough strike.

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rzage

So it's not the strike raising the grade , but a poor strike preventing a grade ?
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Bonedigger

When the OP said "MS-62ish" on a weakly struck coin I automatically figured all the factors were ideal for perfection or near prefection -- MS-68/69/70, since, well you know, MS-65...

Naturally, a coin struck properly with the same foundation would score higher right?

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A few things to remember, Certification and Attribution are Absolute and Definitive. Grading, on the other hand IS NOT. STRIKE is everything, be it strong or weak.
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

GDJMSP

In the one case yes and in the other case no. For any coin to be given any grade all of the criteria for that grade have to met by the coin. If only one of the criteria is missing, say quality of strike, - the coin will not get that grade.

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GDJMSP

What ??? How do you jump from 62ish to 68-69 ? I'm confused. What the OP said was -

" Is it possible for a weakly struck coin, missing some detail, to grade higher that about MS 60-62, or so? "



I just answered that.

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Bonedigger

As has been discussed, a coin with a weak strike will grade lower in the MS grades. If the same planchet (prefection) were to have received a flawless, regular/strong strike and careful handling afterwards, just like the weakly struck MS-60/62ish (minus the strong strike of course) coin wouldn't it tend to figure that the assigned grade be higher?

That's all I was getting at.

Ben

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A few things to remember, Certification and Attribution are Absolute and Definitive. Grading, on the other hand IS NOT. STRIKE is everything, be it strong or weak.
Capped Bust Half Dollars Identification Reference
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

GDJMSP

OK, but no coin that is graded MS60-62 is going to be graded any higher than MS63 no matter how good it's strike is - if all other things are equal on the two coins.

That's why your comment didn't make sense to me.

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davidh

Interesting...

I'm perhaps stuck in 1980 when I last collected. At that time (as I understood it at the time) grading was a matter of the visible detail compared with an "ideal" BU example of the same coin, now called MS-70 or PR-70. I may be wrong (again) but at that time, if a coin left the coin press with less than perfect detail then it could not approach a perfect grade. Also, the coin was graded to the weakest side, not like today's dual grade.

Oh well...

An ancillary question. In reality, does rarity play any part in grading? That is, say you have two absolutely identical IHCs with equal wear, color and detail. If you covered the dates then everyone would give them identical grades. However, if you uncovered the dates and one was an 1877 and the other was a 1909, would they then still grade identically? (in this, and any similar comparison, I'm assuming that there are no other details on the coin that would indicate its date.)

I'm thinking that, while grading it ideally objective, there's really a lot more subjectivity and bias involved than there should be.

GDJMSP

I'm confused by your comment about a dual grade - there is no dual grade. Coins are graded based upon their worst side.

And yes, as has been discussed in other recent threads, sometimes coins of a certain rarity do get a grade bump by the TPg's.

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