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07-29-2008, 07:15 PM
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#1 (permalink)
| | What Goes Around Comes A
Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Chicago
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Just asking a question .
rzage
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07-29-2008, 07:24 PM
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#2 (permalink)
| | Researching Coins
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And it is a question that needs an answer.
It's kindof like the Market Grading question....people disagree on it and I would bet that there is at least one person from each side here on CT 
Speedy
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07-29-2008, 07:38 PM
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#3 (permalink)
| | What Goes Around Comes A
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Speedy  And it is a question that needs an answer.
It's kindof like the Market Grading question....people disagree on it and I would bet that there is at least one person from each side here on CT
Speedy | Thanks , I guess it's all in how you look at it . 
rzage  
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07-29-2008, 10:40 PM
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#4 (permalink)
| | What Goes Around Comes A
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Never really looked at it like that , thats why I love this site all the different views and knowledge , thanks again Doug .
rzage
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07-29-2008, 11:03 PM
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#5 (permalink)
| | 4 short of a full herd
Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Land of 10,000 Lakes
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There are many dates in the buffalo nickel series that are notorious for weak strikes. I have a handful of PCGS and NGC graded buffalos that are very weakly struck and came through at 63's and 64's. I normally like to find a nicely struck coin (or as Bone would say, "hammered") but sometimes you can get a better price on the weak strike.
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07-30-2008, 02:07 AM
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#6 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Apr 2005
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When grading a coin, it is important to take into account the average strength of strike. For instance, there are several years of SLQs that have no rivet detail on even the best struck specimens -- from what I understand the hubs lost detail. Some would call a vitually perfect example of this coin, albeit weakly struck, no better than a 65 because of this lack of detail. TPGs don't follow this credo, and the ANA guides do -- from what I understand. I tend to agree with the TPGs take on it as it seems rather arbitrary to limit a grade of a coin due to a lack of hub detail.
There are many issues of large cents which suffer from the same problem, as well as most of the earlier type coins, not to mention the buff's as was pointed out above -- this is a classic problem in grading coins...Mike
Last edited by Leadfoot; 07-30-2008 at 02:11 AM.
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07-30-2008, 10:12 PM
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#7 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: PA
Posts: 23,515
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Leadfoot When grading a coin, it is important to take into account the average strength of strike. For instance, there are several years of SLQs that have no rivet detail on even the best struck specimens -- from what I understand the hubs lost detail. Some would call a vitually perfect example of this coin, albeit weakly struck, no better than a 65 because of this lack of detail. TPGs don't follow this credo, and the ANA guides do -- from what I understand. I tend to agree with the TPGs take on it as it seems rather arbitrary to limit a grade of a coin due to a lack of hub detail.
There are many issues of large cents which suffer from the same problem, as well as most of the earlier type coins, not to mention the buff's as was pointed out above -- this is a classic problem in grading coins...Mike |
If I am understanding you correctly, you are talking about making allowances for cases where all known coins of a given date, mint & denomination are known to be weakly struck. If that is the case, the ANA standards do make allowances for that.
The rule about a weak strike being no higher than 64 (not 65) does not apply in these cases.
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07-30-2008, 10:25 PM
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#8 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
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Well, just to me - perhaps (after reading and seeing all the contradictions posted recently on this forum) it sounds like the original ANA grading standards have metamorphisized into more grading interpretations and exceptions than there have been borders in/of Russia.  
Reasons: Maybe hidden agendas, or perhaps with other smoke and mirror reasons...
My Honest Opinion 
Take Care
Ben
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07-30-2008, 10:35 PM
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#9 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
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Bone is that perhaps because you never really understood the ANA standards ? Even the first edition, and every edition after that, mentions that allowances in grading are made for coins where the entire mintage is known for a weak strike. That has never changed.
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07-30-2008, 10:43 PM
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#10 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: South Dakota
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Originally Posted by GDJMSP Bone is that perhaps because you never really understood the ANA standards ? Even the first edition, and every edition after that, mentions that allowances in grading are made for coins where the entire mintage is known for a weak strike. That has never changed. | Hmmm, I wouldn't bet on that...
__________________ A few things to remember, Certification and Attribution are Absolute and Definitive. Grading, on the other hand IS NOT. STRIKE is everything, be it strong or weak. Capped Bust Half Dollars Identification Reference
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07-30-2008, 04:16 AM
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#11 (permalink)
| | Likes Silver
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Missouri
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Alot of dates of Walkers have weak strikes as well. And I think its only fair not to give a coin a low grade when all coins of that date/mint lack some detail due to a weak strike.
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07-30-2008, 07:51 PM
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#12 (permalink)
| | Juxtaposed Oxymora
Join Date: May 2006 Location: Powell, WY
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I should reiterate on my above post, as I am not trying to say that a grade would "get a bump" for being an exceptional or above average strike in a weak strike series. Rather I am trying to say that it only appears to be a bump in grade, while in fact, the grade is consistent with market grading standards, as the typical for the specimen is a weak strike. Therefore, what would be considered a normal strike to another series, is considered exceptional in the weakly struck series. Thus, it is not bumping, but rather proper market grading to put the specimen in the higher grade. A matter of perspective...much like the perspective on "changing" standards.
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07-31-2008, 01:02 AM
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#13 (permalink)
| | Likes Silver
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Missouri
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Hey Ben, I don't mean to try to stir things up anymore, but wasn't the disagreement about the ANA grading standards?
And just to throw my very humble opinion out there, it was always my understanding that the ANA standards allowed for some leniency (not sure thats the word I'm trying to think of) in the case of coin date/mint/denominations that are known to be weakly struck.
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07-31-2008, 01:07 AM
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#14 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: South Dakota
Posts: 7,885
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Originally Posted by AdamL Hey Ben, I don't mean to try to stir things up anymore, but wasn't the disagreement about the ANA grading standards?
And just to throw my very humble opinion out there, it was always my understanding that the ANA standards allowed for some leniency (not sure thats the word I'm trying to think of) in the case of coin date/mint/denominations that are known to be weakly struck. | No worries mate, you may be right.. LOL But, IMHO Strike is everything...
__________________ A few things to remember, Certification and Attribution are Absolute and Definitive. Grading, on the other hand IS NOT. STRIKE is everything, be it strong or weak. Capped Bust Half Dollars Identification Reference
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07-31-2008, 01:54 AM
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#15 (permalink)
| | Likes Silver
Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Missouri
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Cool. If you are grading by redbook standards, and Doug is grading by the ANA book, then I don't see what the major disagreement is about, in this case. It sounds to me like just a case of difference of opinions due to the fact that, as you've said repeatedly, grading is subjective. No big deal. 
I look forward to possibly picking this discussion back up again in the morning.
Goodnight!
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