Official 2008 ANA Summer Seminar Thread

Hobo · 06-20-2008, 04:13 AM

Session I of the 2008 ANA Summer Seminar kicks off this Saturday in Colorado Springs. Session II begins the following Saturday.

Classes begin Sunday afternoon and continue through Thursday. There are evening Mini Seminars as well as informal talks on a variety of topics each evening. A coin auction is held each session to benefit YNs. There is also a book sale each session where the ANA Library sells their surplus books. Bargains abound. Each session is capped with a banquet (and the food is excellent).

In Session I I will be taking Intermediate Grading Of US Coins. In Session II I will be taking Digital Coin Photography with fellow CTer and current ANA Intern MrDSmith (Adam, whom I have already met). Adam and I will also be taking a tour of the Denver Mint on one of the many outings that are offered.

As time allows I will post some of the happenings at this years Summer Seminar. If you are attending please feel free to chime in. If you have any questions ask away.

I'm really looking forward to this year's Summer Seminar. I hope to learn a lot and make new friends. That's what it's all about.

Ardatirion · 06-20-2008, 02:25 PM

Say hello to everyone for me, Hobo. I couldn't make it this summer. :-(

srkjkd · 06-21-2008, 02:22 AM

greetings!
i am very happy (and envious!!) that you are able to attend. i am anticipating a video to be released from the VAM guys of the seminar this yr. i wrote to them and we agreed it would be a smart thing to do. it helps so many of us who simply do not have the resources to attend. it is not as good as being there in person, but any knowledge gained is valuable!!!! i am so happy you are able to attend the seminars and show, and will have to live vicariously (numismatically) thru you!!
keep us updated and thank you so much!
sincerely,
steve

**The_Cave_Troll** · 06-21-2008, 11:52 PM

I will be at session 2 Bruce, we should have lunch together one day or something.

Hobo · 06-22-2008, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Cave_Troll

I will be at session 2 Bruce, we should have lunch together one day or something.

Sounds like a plan. I'm looking forward to it.

Hobo · 06-23-2008, 05:31 AM

Saturday

Registration went smoothly. I saw several familiar faces at lunch and met a couple of new people. Bill Fivaz cracked up the crowd at Orientation with his hillbilly teeth. (Wish I had a picture.)

Sunday

I arrived early (7:15 AM) for the ANA book sale and was still #8 in line. There was not as good a selection of books this year and the guys ahead of me cherrypicked some of the better materials. But I still got a few nice books - 10 in all. I grabbed the following:

The Coin Dealer Newsletter - A Study In Rare Coin Price Performance 1963-1988. HB Over 500 pages. A steal at $1!!!
Selections From The Numismatist - Ancient And Medieval Coins. HB (At least my second copy) $8
Confederate And Southern State Currency. HB $30
Secrets of a Professional Coin Dealer. SB $1
United States Pattern Coin Prices 1946-1947. Pamphlet. (2 copies) 10 cents each!
The Buffalo Nickel. Cohen & Druley. SB $10
The Walking Liberty Half Dollar. Swiatek. SB $5
The United States Clad Coinage. Rapsus. $7
Pikes Peak or Bust - A Brief History of Colorado's Rich Numismatic Tradition. Pamphlet. $5

I picked up a few more books on sale at the bookstore:

Standing Liberty Quarters. 4th Edition. Cline. HB $11.95
How To Grade US Coins. Halperin. SB $5.95
Scott Travers' Top 88 Coins Over $100. SB $2

This is a fraction of what I bought last year.

I made arrangements to buy a counterfeit $2 1/2 Indian from a guy that was in my Counterfeit Detection course 2 years ago. Now he only needs to locate it.

Classes started after lunch. Intermediate Grading is full with about 25 students. This is the first year this course has been offered. Before there were Introduction to Grading and then Advanced Grading. This course will fit nicely between the other two and make it easier for many to become advanced graders. The instructors were to be Don Bonser, Mary Sauvain and Matt K. Don was unable to make it this year (his dog died) so Bill Fivaz is filling in for him. (No complaints from me! I think Bill Fivaz is GREAT!)

We have a good mix of students with several from my beginner grading class last year. Half the students are from Oklahoma for some reason and several are from Georgia. We have a couple of dealers, several YNs (some very young) and everything in between. After going over the course goals and student introductions the instructors went over some basic concepts of coins and grading (e.g., luster, original surfaces, how coins are made, etc.). They gave us a little test to gauge our knowledge. I was far from perfect but well ahead of many. We will take the same test at the end of the course to see how we improved in those areas.

We start in earnest in the morining. (8 1/2 hours and I haven't gone to bed. That's what I get for living in town and trying to do some work and go to classes at the same time.)

**The_Cave_Troll** · 06-25-2008, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hobo

The instructors were to be Don Bonser, Mary Sauvain and Matt K. Don was unable to make it this year (his dog died) so Bill Fivaz is filling in for him. (No complaints from me! I think Bill Fivaz is GREAT!)

Too bad about Bonser. His dog was like 16 years old or something and ill so I'm not surprised, but he is a very accomplished grader and I'm sure his expertize will be missed.

Please don't take this as a slight to Mary or Bill, both of whom I like, but you should take every opportunity to learn from Matt as possible. He is one of the most talented graders anywhere.

Hobo · 06-25-2008, 03:04 AM

Tuesday

Coins. Coins. And more coins. We looked at a LOT of coins today. A little bit of everything. Today I saw the best $1 Gold I have ever seen. A Type III if I remember correctly. It was graded MS-67 and was almost spotless. The luster was so amazing it looked like it was minted yesterday. Plus it had very impressive clash marks - obverse and reverse. On the reverse the clash was so good you could read most of LIBERTY (in reverse). (Matt said it had been dipped. He always finds something to critique about a coin.)

Our exercizes are to look at a set of slabbed coins (with the grades hidden) and record our grade and any comments for each (e.g., Full Bands, strike through, cleaned, etc.) Then everyone's grade is recorded on a chart to show the spread of grades and how usually the TPG's grade is around the consensus of the class.

Next we split into groups of 6 or 7 and graded more coins. This time we were rushed along so we have a minute or less per coin. They are trying to get us to go with our first impressions instead of minutely studying the coins. Next an instructor polls the group for our grades and then goes over each coin with us. It is really enlightening to watch and listen to how the instructor approaches each coin. After the instructor give his (or her) grade the TPG's grade is revealed. Today I was much better on gold but sometimes far off the mark on heavily circulated coins.

I was embarassed to have missed a Proof Mercury dime today. Yes, I saw the mirrored fields and first thought Proof but I talked myself out of Proof when I didn't see the detail I expected in Liberty's hair. So I graded it MS. Turns out Liberty's hair does not have the details I was looking for. (Only 1 guy in my group graded it Proof so I was not alone.) Not to make excuses but I am not familiar with the characteristics of Mercury Proofs and we were being rushed along. I'll know better next time. This is all part of the learning process.

As I mentioned in the ANA Bash thread, the new Executive Director visited our class. He told us about some of the many changes that are being implemented at ANA and some of the plans for the future. He also spoke to us about grading Early Commems; this is one of his specialites and an area I am interested in so I got a lot out of that. He also brought his collection of James Watt coins. All I can say is WOW!!!

Ken Bressett is a roving instructor and dropped in for a while. He sat at our table for a bit.

So far so good. I feel like I have made progress and I am much more confident in my grading skills. Two more days and several hundred more coins to go.

Hobo · 06-24-2008, 02:39 AM

Monday

My Intermediate Grading course started in earnest today. We viewed a slide show of numerous coins of various grades in the following series: Buffalo Nickels, Morgans and Peace Dollars. We discussed the characteristics that made each coin the grade it was (or was not).

After lunch we got to view 27 PCGS- and NGC-slabbed coins with the grades hidden. The coins included Two Cents, Three Cent Silver, Three Cent Nickel, Half Dime, Mercury Dimes, Walker Half, Morgan and Peace Dollars, $1 Gold, $2 1/2 Liberty, $5 Indian, Saints and a few Civil War Tokens. I was far off the mark on much of the gold and the CWTs. Gold is very hard to grade if you don't see much of it. The CWTs were deceptive where I mistook very weak strikes for wear. Otherwise I fared reasonably well. Tomorrow we get back to looking at a bunch of coins.

I was successful in buying the fake $2 1/2 Indian during lunch. It is not the best conterfeit example I have seen but it is a respectable counterfeit that would fool many collectors.

One of the instructors told a story about something that happened at a coin show. A man came to her table with a box of about 60 raw US gold coins. The man explained that he had bought them all at small auctions here and there over the years and he wanted to get them graded. She looked at the first one and told him it was counterfeit as she picked up the next coin and studied it. She told that the second coin was also fake, and the third one. She heard a thud and looked up to find the guy had fainted and fallen out of the chair! He came to and got back in the chair saying he was OK.

She resumed inspecting the coins and giving him her opinion - some were genuine but most were fake. He fainted and fell out of the chair again! All told he fainted and fell out of his chair three times! Something like 50 of 60 coins were counterfeit.

Moral of the story: Don't buy expensive coins at small auctions if you cannot authenticate and grade them.

I was unable to participate in the evening activities last night of tonight because of work committments. Last night I missed a showing of the movie Who's Minding The Mint? (which was shown at the first ANA Summer Seminar in 1969). Tonight I missed out on a bull session or two. Evening activities are a great way to meet other students who are not in your classes. I hope to be able to participate next week.

**GDJMSP** · 06-24-2008, 11:56 PM

Hobo you would be very surprised at how often that same thing happens to collectors. Very surprised.

Hobo · 06-25-2008, 02:36 AM

Oh, I agree wholeheartedly. My instructers last year (Basic Grading) were Mary, Matt and Don. I was really looking forward to having all three again this year for Intermediate Grading so I was very disappointed to hear Don couldn't make it. But I am very pleased with Bill Fivaz as his replacement. VERY pleased.

And I agree with your opinion of Matt. He is incredible. I wish I knew 1/10 of what he knows about grading coins. And he is how old? 23? Amazing!

greglax45 · 06-25-2008, 07:50 PM

Sounds Awesome. How old do you have to be to attend the Summer Seminar?
It may be hard for me because when I asked my mom and dad about the idea of going to the seminar next year (Summer before Senior year in High School)m they started laughing! They were like, "How much geekier can you get?"

So, is it open to Rising Seniors in High School? I really think the seminar would be a great experience, but also great on my college transcipt!

**GDJMSP** · 06-25-2008, 10:06 PM

Instead of just the seminar, why not try for an internship Greg ?

**The_Cave_Troll** · 06-26-2008, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by greglax45

Sounds Awesome. How old do you have to be to attend the Summer Seminar?
It may be hard for me because when I asked my mom and dad about the idea of going to the seminar next year (Summer before Senior year in High School)m they started laughing! They were like, "How much geekier can you get?"

So, is it open to Rising Seniors in High School? I really think the seminar would be a great experience, but also great on my college transcipt!

There are yn's much younger than you are there every year.

Don't worry about your parents' comments, my wife mocks me (playfully) whenever we talk about me going to "coin camp" and I make sure that every story that I tell her about things that happened at Summer Seminar I always strart with "and one time at coin camp..." (you've seen American Pie right?). I always think it is funnier than she does.

Hobo · 06-26-2008, 03:28 AM

Wednesday

We looked at more coins today. Same drill - look quickly and go with your first impression. Use of a loupe was discouraged today. Many times I had only a few seconds to determine grades for my coins because the guy before me takes way too much time which leaves me very little time before I must pass the coin to the next guy. This has caused me to be WAY off on some of my grades. I simply do not have time to SEE the coin properly.

I was all over the place on gold today, especially $1 Gold (which are very tiny and hard to see without magnification) and $2 1/2 & $5 Indians (which are the hardest coins to grade - bar none). I graded circulated gold MS-65 and I graded high grade MS gold as low as EF-45 because I did not have time to accurately determine if the coins had full luster or broken luster. I swear, uncirculated $2 1/2 and $5 Indians very often look circulated to me. I simply am not that familar with them.

I'm not worried too much about this because 1) I rarely (if ever) buy gold and 2) when I buy a coin I usually look it for more than a few seconds. If I decide to buy any of these gold series I will brush up on how to grade them before sticking my neck out.

This exercize is not for naught. I think I am getting much better at grading and quickly forming a rough idea of a grade before looking at the details. We are getting it drilled into us to first determine if the coin is circulated or mint state. Once you determine that you simply zero in on a grade.

Again after class I had to tend to work but I was able to make it to the YN Auction. The YN Auction is an auction of items that have been donated. (A few items are sold on consignment so only a portion goes to the YN Scholorship. On the other lots ALL the money goes to the YN Scholorship.) Some things sell for ridiculous prices. (Last year a bottle of water sold for $1,000.) There were many interesting items. One - an anciet Alexander coin - sold for $2700. I bid on several lots but did not win any. I did not hear a total but I know several thousand dollars were raised.

Tomorrow is the last day of class. Tomorrow evening is the banquet. I'm gonna try to get some sleep tonight for once.

Night, night!

Welcome to Coin Talk! Register Now, it's easy and FREE!