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10-08-2007, 11:13 AM
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#1 (permalink)
| | Supporter**
Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hessen, Germany
Posts: 933
| 1801 Draped Bust Half Dollar: O-102 Variety? Please grade
Hello,
This is my 1801 Draped Bust Half dollar. From a Stack's auction 1n 1988.
I hope that the picture brings out the level of detail this coin has. It is very difficult to take good pictures, particularly getting the lighting right, and with an unsteady hand.....
Anyhow, this one was attributed as Overton variety O-102, with the foot of A in "America" not imbedded in the eagles wing.
It is nicely toned in dark grey, and has faint adjustment marks across the obverse. Can you please confirm the variety (as i have found that cataloguers aree not always correct), and its Rarity please. If possible i would also like to have your opinions on its grade and value. It is really a lovely coin, one of my favourites.
Regards,
Eduard
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10-08-2007, 12:26 PM
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#2 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: South Dakota
Posts: 7,885
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Eduard, I have to be honest in my questions. Are you absolutely certain this coin is genuine? It's impossible for me to ascertain as I don't have it in hand. The weight should be around 13.44-13.48 grams. The color looks suspiciously like some counterfeit examples which recently plagued the Los Angles area police departments. Also, the two lines beneath the beak connecting to the E PLURIBUS UNUM aren't there on the O-102 example provided in the 4th Overton refrence Book, but he pics aren't that great in it anyway. Since it's from a STACKS auction then my worries are put at ease somewhat...
Assuming it's real, according to the Overton Refrence the Rarity Rating is R4 in VF35/XF40 condition.
Regards
Ben
__________________ A few things to remember, Certification and Attribution are Absolute and Definitive. Grading, on the other hand IS NOT. STRIKE is everything, be it strong or weak.  Capped Bust Half Dollars Identification Reference
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Last edited by Bonedigger; 10-08-2007 at 12:31 PM.
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10-08-2007, 12:50 PM
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#3 (permalink)
| | Supporter**
Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Jefferson City, Tennessee
Posts: 3,008
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonedigger  Also, the two lines beneath the beak connecting to the E PLURIBUS UNUM aren't there on the O-102 example provided in the 4th Overton refrence Book, but he pics aren't that great in it anyway.
Regards
Ben |
Ben,
Either the pics are not good enough to see the two lines or the coin pictured in the 4th Overton reference book, is of a later Die State! I say this, because every picture of every Bust Dollar from 1798 through 1803 that I have been able to find, shows the two lines connecting the Eagle's beak and E PLURIBUS UNUM. I grant you that some are weak but they are still there on the coins that I have been able to view!
Frank
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10-08-2007, 12:51 PM
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#4 (permalink)
| | Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 336
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it looks really genuine to me , with extra fine detail
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10-08-2007, 01:34 PM
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#5 (permalink)
| | Supporter**
Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hessen, Germany
Posts: 933
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Thank you Bonedigger, thank you guys for your comments. Actually, you got me worried too now Bonedigger, in spite of the fact this coin came from a reputable auction house. Actually, this coin was lot 527 of Stack' s Sale held April 27-30th 1988 (in conjuntion with the NYNC). It was described (somewhat tersely) as "1801, O-102. Very Fine. Some planchet adjustment marks on the Obverse. Russet and IridescThe edge ent. Very Scarce" . This was the same auction i bought the 1796 JR-1 dime, which turned out not to be a JR-1, but a JR-4. But that is another story..
I will weigh it tomorrow, i have access to lab balances which can weigh 6 digits behind the decimal point. What else should i look for? The edge has an inscription consisting of some stars and some lettering.
Thanks guys,
Eduard
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10-08-2007, 01:44 PM
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#6 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: South Dakota
Posts: 7,885
| Quote:
Originally Posted by Eduard Thank you Bonedigger, thank you guys for your comments. Actually, you got me worried too now Bonedigger, in spite of the fact this coin came from a reputable auction house. Actually, this coin was lot 527 of Stack' s Sale held April 27-30th 1988 (in conjuntion with the NYNC). It was described (somewhat tersely) as "1801, O-102. Very Fine. Some planchet adjustment marks on the Obverse. Russet and IridescThe edge ent. Very Scarce" . This was the same auction i bought the 1796 JR-1 dime, which turned out not to be a JR-1, but a JR-4. But that is another story..
I will weigh it tomorrow, i have access to lab balances which can weigh 6 digits behind the decimal point. What else should i look for? The edge has an inscription consisting of some stars and some lettering.
Thanks guys,
Eduard | Eduard, please don't let me worry you with my words. I have no doubt it's real, but I only had the pictures to go by and there has been a rash of counterfeit early American coinage flooding the internet and pawn shops of late. I always tend to lean on the side of caution. Remember there are only three Overton varieties of the 1801 Drapped Bust Half Dollar 101, 102, and 103. Your coin could easisly fetch $6,000 in todays market.
Take Care
Ben
__________________ A few things to remember, Certification and Attribution are Absolute and Definitive. Grading, on the other hand IS NOT. STRIKE is everything, be it strong or weak. Capped Bust Half Dollars Identification Reference
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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10-08-2007, 04:48 PM
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#7 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,896
My Mood:  |
XF details, cleaned, net VF.
I do not know enough of this series to speak to its authenticity, but see nothing that worries me at first glance...Mike
[edited to ask] Does the coin have any hairlines?
Last edited by Leadfoot; 10-08-2007 at 04:50 PM.
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10-09-2007, 08:05 AM
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#8 (permalink)
| | The Other Frank
Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: New York
Posts: 17,750
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Ed:
Another winner!
Very nice.
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10-09-2007, 01:08 PM
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#9 (permalink)
| | Supporter**
Join Date: May 2007 Location: Hessen, Germany
Posts: 933
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Hello Frank, thank you for your comments. Yes, this is a nice coin, and i am very happy to have it my collection. The surfaces shows no hairlines evidence of a cleaning, only minor contact marks. As far as i can tell, and of course i am not an expert, it has not been cleaned.
Going through my US coins after so long, and posting them here, has renewed my interest in them. I am even thinking about buying a few more if the opportunity arises, and have my now eyes set on a Rhode Island Ship token being offered. It is about Very Fine. I will post it if i get it.
Ben, i weighed the coin today and it came in at 13.340 grams. This is 1 % below the range you mentioned in your post above. Is this still aceptable? Interesting fact is that the coin does have adjustment marks across the obverse, as mentioned in the catalogue description, and this would would indicate that it was overweigth to start with, correct? Maybe the ladies at the PA mint back in 1801 over did it with the adjusting?
Regards,
Eduard
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10-09-2007, 01:12 PM
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#10 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: South Dakota
Posts: 7,885
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^^^ Eduard, was the scale calibrated? The coin does show some wear and that equates to silver/copper being worn away, thus lightening the coin. However, that still seems significantly underweight considering the condition of the coin? I'll look for the OFFICIAL tolerances for the series.
Ben
__________________ A few things to remember, Certification and Attribution are Absolute and Definitive. Grading, on the other hand IS NOT. STRIKE is everything, be it strong or weak. Capped Bust Half Dollars Identification Reference
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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10-09-2007, 01:48 PM
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#11 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: South Dakota
Posts: 7,885
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Eduard, I'm still looking for that information. Here is some information for all to see. Many thanks fo bakercoins.net.
////////////////////////////////////////////////////// http://www.bakercoins.net/learn/arti...ust/cbust.html
...Many counterfeit half dollars were not even made of silver. Many where made of “German Silver”, which contained no silver. These coins were made with a alloy made of 55% copper, 30% zinc and 15% nickel. The weight and color is about the same as circulated coins struck on silver. But almost all are underweight...
__________________ A few things to remember, Certification and Attribution are Absolute and Definitive. Grading, on the other hand IS NOT. STRIKE is everything, be it strong or weak. Capped Bust Half Dollars Identification Reference
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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10-09-2007, 02:00 PM
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#12 (permalink)
| | Coin Fanatic
Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Portsmouth GB......
Posts: 1,342
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Attractive AVF/VF
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10-16-2007, 10:10 AM
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#13 (permalink)
| | Numismatist
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 5,097
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My only question is, why is it that on the obverse the denticals go to a raised flat rim like the style first used around 1834 instead of a long toothed dentical like you see on the reverse of the coin?
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