grizz

excellent question.

grizz

Treashunt

agreed!

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tcore

Wow... well that's very scary. I suppose it was bound to happen though. I truly hope the TPGs do everything they can to stay on top of this. I also think providing some security features on the labels like the security features used on currency or even like Microsoft does to its software ID keys would be a good thing.

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alwayslost

If any fool tries to sell me a fake slab, then woe begone to him!

d_lairson

I think an important question is...

What are we going to do, as a community, about this problem?

As a community, do we have the time/resources/willpower to do anything about this?

As it stands right now, we (the community) do a pretty decent job of scanning eBay for problems, and in many cases reporting those problems. We have had a pretty decent victory recently with the new eBay rules about TPG's and this shows that we can actually make a difference if we try hard enough. But are we really going to be able to check on all the new slabs that hit eBay? I think they said on the other forum that this is like 1000 NCG slabs a day! And there are reports of other companies out there that have fakes.

The final question is, is this really any of our business? This is really a matter between eBay and the seller, and NGC, should we get involved?

When you think about the problems we have with SGS and the actions we take against them (him) these could have repercussions on our cointalk community. We say and do alot of things that hamper SGS's business at times. We could potentially be opening ourselves up to a lawsuit, or open Peter up to a lawsuit. As a community do we have the resources to defend ourselves?

I don't think that one of these fake slabbers will attack our community legally, but there are other forms of attack. Do we want to deal with this?

Personally I think that it is in our best interest to at least try and do something about this. I have no clue what we should do. I am in no way an expert at finding fakes, but I will try. I will spend some of my free time looking at auctions, and questioning those that need it. I just hope that other people in this community feel the same way that I do.

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coleguy

Brings back the old saying, "buy the coin, not the slab".
Guy~

vipergts2

You got that right!

True, that is a pretty simple rule to follow for grade, if you can see the coin in hand. But buying a coin from pics can be challenging sometimes, and if I was to buy a rare or key date, I would like to know that an expert has authenticated it.

Cloudsweeper99

I agree. Over the past few years, I've purchased more from internet dealers than others and if they don't/won't/can't screen out fake slabs, this is a major problem.

At least we've been warned thanks to Coin Talk.

JeromeLS

That is a very good fake of a 1795 $1 inside a rather good fake of a slab...warning-slabs are just as unsafe as buying "raw" coins.

Just Carl

I have mentioned this before. At a coin show a dealer I know pretty well showed me a slab and asked me if it looked tampered with. I examined the slab and could not see any way it was tampered with. However, the coin inside did not match the grade and was not even the same denomination as stated on the slab. He did it as a joke but it sure made me wonder about any slabbed coins. He also pointed out about the many fake well known TPG slabbs being counterfeited lately but said look at this. He then showed me a slabbed coin with a grading service I never heard of. Thought is was just a new one. He said, no it is just one more thing to watch out for. The counterfeiters know many buy slabs and have no idea about how many companies do that work.
So you could have a slab tampered with, a slab with a top grading service faked, a fake grading service, a fake coin in a fake slab.
HMMMMM. So now we must become plastic experts.

bzcollektor

Hmmm...I just bought a lot of 13 NGC graded Morgans.

One of them had the holograph carefully cut out and removed from the reverse of the holder.
I guess I can figure out why....

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clembo

99% of my coins are raw but I do have coins that I have wanted to slab in case something happens to me so my wife will get better dollar for them.
Now I have to wonder if it's really worth it.

I would think the "legit" TPGs could come up with better safety measures. Only problem is that it will further increase the price of slabbing a coin.

THIS IS SCARY AND FOR TOO MANY REASONS.

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GDJMSP

There are still a couple of things to consider here - to the best of my knowledge nobody has yet seen any of these fakes in hand. Looking at pics is one thing, looking at the slab in your hand is entirely different. For example the hologram, you can not reproduce a hologram in a photograph - it's impossible. It is also extremely difficult, and expensive, to replicate one at all without the computer code used to make the originals. So while I cannot say this with certainty, I feel it is highly likely that if one were to hold one of the fake slabs next to a genuine example that anyone would immediately and readily see the difference.

Something else to consider is that these are now known and you can bet that the TPG's will be going after these people with everything they have. And they have considerable resources so I don't expect them to last long.

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SapperNurse

As long as you have people implementign security measures, you will have peopel tryign to get past those security measures. When our Mother-Baby unit put in its new infant abduction system, I was there dozens of times so I knew the system as I wanted it for my pediatric floor.

When it came to test the system, they asked me to try to "steal a baby" why? because I knew the system inside and out, knew its faults and its limitations.

With a little homework, reaseach, intelligence and proper tools, anything can be faked.
Be it for the almighty $$, pride in doing it or whatever....everyone needs a hobby I suppose

Speedy

I have to ask---did it work?

Speedy

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