How ebay flirts with fraud

clembo · 07-08-2007, 08:15 PM

This is a long post but worth reading.

It started with this item.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1865-GEORGE-WASH...categoryZ20097 QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Ardatirion deserves the credit for bringing this to our attention.

Long story short. I reported this auction to ebay as well as a few others by this seller. He's selling coins that do NOT EXIST! Here's a copy of my complaint that they included in the reply.

Item number(s):
260133736355 $US US !44401! 111405 ?01 -01
260133735852 $US US !44401! 111405 ?01 -01

"Message: These are just a few examples. The auctions I mention are for
coins that DO NOT EXIST!

Whether or not this person undersatnds coins (and I'm sure he does)
these are in no way legitimate. Does his disclaimer make this alright as
long as ebay collects a fee while some poor sap gets ripped off?

Seems more and more like it every day."

Here is ebays reply:

"
Dear eBay Member,

Thank you for writing eBay in regard to suspicious coin listings.

Because eBay does not employ or train its Trust & Safety Customer
Support Representatives to be experts in the area of coins and currency,
we rely on expert opinions from knowledgeable people as well as reliable
third party organizations, such as the American Numismatic Association
(ANA).

Your report will be reviewed by a group of members that comprise a
community watch group for coin auctions. They then confer amongst
themselves and either agree or disagree that the listings are
problematic. They then forward that information to the ANA for review.
The ANA can then agree or disagree after careful consideration. If they
agree, they then contact the seller directly. Sellers are then afforded
24 hours in which to revise or cancel the auctions. If they fail to do
so, eBay must cancel the auction.

Please be sure to check our Prohibited, Questionable & Infringing Items
pages for information on eBay listing policies and guidelines:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/items-ov.html

If you received an informational alert or warning, and you have
additional questions, or you have another listing to report, please
contact us at the following link:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/select-RS.html

In order for us to get to you in a timely manner, please do not respond
to this email. If you reply to this message we will not receive your
email. All communications should be sent to the link provided above.

Again, thank you for your report. We appreciate your help in keeping
eBay a safe and reputable forum to conduct business.

Thank you for your time.

Sincerely,
eBay Customer Support"

So let's see, it has to go through several channels on a seven day (or less or ten day) auction. This auction occurred during the 4th of July week so any decision would take even longer. Bottom line is that by the time a decision is made the auction can very well be over.

ISN'T THAT CONVENIENT?

One of ebays biggest categories is coins but they can't afford to have a few knowledgeable people on hand? Hell, you don't need to be a coin genius to see that the 1865 Washington silver dollar is a clad quarter from 1965.

As the expensive commercials say you can find "IT" on ebay. Just add a few letters to the front of that word and you get the truth.

hontonai · 07-08-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clembo

Bottom line is that by the time a decision is made the auction can very well be over.

You've completely missed the point. The process is designed to ensure that the auction is over before it can be stopped. You'll also notice that if an identical new auction is posted after one is reviewed, it will have to go through the whole process again. EBay does not want to stop seller fraud!

clembo · 07-08-2007, 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hontonai

You've completely missed the point. The process is designed to ensure that the auction is over before it can be stopped. You'll also notice that if an identical new auction is posted after one is reviewed, it will have to go through the whole process again. EBay does not want to stop seller fraud!

Sorry to disagree with you but I HAVE NOT missed the point. I'm bringing it to attention here. Not everyone knows this as well as you so obviously do.
Those who wouldn't know about this need a hand - the gist of my thread.

I've read several of your posts hontonai and it seems all you ever do is criticize. If you know so much why don't you share with the class? That's what this site is about.

clembo

Henry · 07-08-2007, 09:00 PM

Excuse me....???

Buyer be "ware"....

If you do not know what you are doing ....you get ripped off....that is life with fellow homosapians.

Ebay seems to have a great policy, based upon what you quoat here in this thread.

Ebay is the messenger...it does not create the message.

Slam the person with the posting... not ebay.

Or just light

en up and live a healther life...

clembo · 07-08-2007, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henry

Excuse me....???

Buyer be "ware"....

If you do not know what you are doing ....you get ripped off....that is life with fellow homosapians.

Ebay seems to have a great policy, based upon what you quoat here in this thread.

Ebay is the messenger...it does not create the message.

Slam the person with the posting... not ebay.

Or just light

en up and live a healther life...

Henry,

It's great in theory but ebay has changed a LOT over the years. People get ripped off every day because ebay allows it. They are HUGE as you well know and need to take some responsibility.
They are NOT just the messenger they are part of the message because they make money off of every sale.

That is my problem along with so many others. They will allow scams to go on for the bottom line to make a buck.

I don't fall for the scams but so many do. Would you like your family members or friends to be scammed so ebay can make a buck?

I'll lighten up when ebay stops singing their own praises and starts being honest again.

monty101 · 07-08-2007, 09:25 PM

[quote=clembo]This is a long post but worth reading.

Yeah, but the bidder can't tell a silver dollar from a quarter, maybe he/she needs to get ripped off?

Somehow it relates to english being our official language while millions of people watch telemundo. One day they will wonder why they got ripped off by someone speaking english.

Dahhhhhhhhhhh

"If you can't keep up with the big dogs don't get off the porch."

clembo · 07-08-2007, 09:41 PM

[QUOTE=monty101]

Quote:

Originally Posted by clembo

This is a long post but worth reading.

Yeah, but the bidder can't tell a silver dollar from a quarter, maybe he/she needs to get ripped off?

Somehow it relates to english being our official language while millions of people watch telemundo. One day they will wonder why they got ripped off by someone speaking english.

Dahhhhhhhhhhh

"If you can't keep up with the big dogs don't get off the porch."

I doubt that english has anything to do with this or telemundo. Inexperienced coin collectors being ripped off is the problem. Caveat Emptor? Of course, but ebay has policies about misrepreseting and selling fraudulent coins etc.

They don't back them up. That's what this thread is about.

Dahhhhhhhhhh

clembo · 07-08-2007, 09:46 PM

Thank you CoinGal07 ,

I knew eventually someone would see this thread for what it was intended for.

clembo

CoinGal07 · 07-08-2007, 09:29 PM

I agree ~ very valuable information. It's too bad that many people don't know this type forum exists 'here' for help & information on coins. I posted the seller as a fraud too and have yet to receive any response or feedback from Ebay so obviously even the 'canned' responses are lagging. Thanks for sharing Clembo.

For anyone reading this now that did not read the earlier thread, I'll repeat my 'lesson learned advice' ~ always pay w/credit card via paypal, not your direct bank account and never money order. Your credit card is still safe and as they are paid by YOU not the EBAY SELLER .. you have someone in your corner to get your money back. Paypal offers protection but is just as lagging and confusing as Ebay is resolving disputes.

And no, this wasn't a 'I thought I was buying an 1865 Washington Silver Dollar' type fraud ~ this was a legitimate coin registered by PCGS that the seller pulled a bait/switch after selling, etc. No help from Ebay OR Paypal. Even when the seller abused me in writing, threatened me, and used profanity Ebay and Paypal did nothing but send these canned responses.

So their response to buyer complaints is auto respond & rake in their percentage. We can choose to either 'not shop & buy' or just protect ourselves the best we can by sharing information like this.

StartingOut · 07-08-2007, 10:07 PM

He's got the 100% rating because he (or his friends) are the only ones bidding. Check out the feedback comments. Neither of the two of them can spell the American English language.

"--- great seller 1400% trustly - johansuperman ( 2 )" HUH? 1400%??
"--- fast and good service.TNKS;I am happhy whit evrerithing*****5starsservice - neri7726 ( 2 )"
"--- fast shipping excellent seller i recomende--------AAA100% trustly- johansuperman ( 2 )"

Of course johansuperman is no longer a registered user.. hmmm. Go figure!!

And when and IF they get shut down, they reopen an account under a different name and keep going. Scammers are always going to make money on the unsuspecting. They have no conscience

BostonMike · 07-08-2007, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by clembo

Hell, you don't need to be a coin genius to see that the 1865 Washington silver dollar is a clad quarter from 1965.

I don't even think it's a real quarter.

It looks remarkable similar to a PLASTIC quarter i have in my desk

CoinGal07 · 07-08-2007, 10:15 PM

I saw that too but I also checked the DATES ... this guy hasn't sold anything for over a year (last feedback was April 2006) .... now suddenly this seller is online w/fake coins ~ another thing to watch for when buying on ebay. It's not enough to look at the grade.. you have to look at the dates of the feedback and items sold - click the tab 'feed back as a buyer' ... a lot of these 'frauds' will hijack user names of 'buyers' with a good rating and suddenly load up the auction w/fraud coins.. a new 'ebayer' looks at the score .. not the detail to realize 'gee, this 100% scored ebayer has never sold anything before and never bought coins .. all of the feedback is 'other stuff'.. miscellanous items. Another red flag waving...

clembo · 07-08-2007, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoinGal07

I saw that too but I also checked the DATES ... this guy hasn't sold anything for over a year (last feedback was April 2006) .... now suddenly this seller is online w/fake coins ~ another thing to watch for when buying on ebay. It's not enough to look at the grade.. you have to look at the dates of the feedback and items sold - click the tab 'feed back as a buyer' ... a lot of these 'frauds' will hijack user names of 'buyers' with a good rating and suddenly load up the auction w/fraud coins.. a new 'ebayer' looks at the score .. not the detail to realize 'gee, this 100% scored ebayer has never sold anything before and never bought coins .. all of the feedback is 'other stuff'.. miscellanous items. Another red flag waving...

Yes, and ebay is making you look even deeper to find this stuff. A newbie is fair game!

Dumanyu · 07-08-2007, 10:34 PM

Thanks for putting this up on the board. OMG, the only thing missing is a "S" mint mark. It's ridiculous that ebay can't police itself better with the vast amounts of money thay rake in.

I personally have an ebay account, but I very rarely use it, for this very reason.
Part of me says, anyone who purchases this abomination, deserves to get ripped off. The other part says the seller should have something ripped off their person.

peterplanchet · 07-08-2007, 11:18 PM

My guess is that most of the bidders here know that these coins are fake and are just looking for souvenirs.

-- Peter Planchet

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