sumorada

GDJMSP, this is a little off from the original topic but i'm curious about what your opinion is as to how several thousand coins got out of the mint without the edge lettering, do you think that they just did'nt go to the edge lettering machine or that a malfunction occured that allowed them to pass without lettering........or something else?
i have a very high regard for you and your knowledge of coins, please let us know what your opinion is.thanks in advance..........eric

rlm's cents

Take a look at linky They (NGC) show a genuine no lettering GW. "This is a genuine Washington dollar with the edge lettering missing. The surfaces are original and unaltered and also show the fine vertical ejection marks. ." This tells me two things. 1 - The no lettering they show went through the edge lettering machine. 2 - There is some force envolved in ejecting the coin from the dye.

GDJMSP

I do, they were published in Coin World. Unfortunately reproducing the pictures here would be a violation of copyright law. But in the interest of explaining this I will ask the editor permission to post them here.

For those who have seen these pictures of the edge die, my explanation given previously is self evident. For the slot/groove that coins pass through make it impossible for the edge of the coin to be raised up like those in your pictures. And if the edge of the coin were raised up prior to passing through the edge die, the raised up edge would be pushed back down by the compression caused by passing through the die.

Now, I have no explantion as to why the gouge appears in the same general area of some coins other than coincidence. I also suspect that similar gouges occur on other coins in different areas. You wish to believe that this is a striking error, I choose not to because logic dictates otherwise. But you can believe it if you wish, for I cannot prove otherwise. I can only suggest.

But wish to remind you, the coins go through a half a dozen or more machines after the edge design is imparted to the coin. And it is far more likely that such damage is caused by one of these machines than it caused by the striking process. But I will happily submit that anything is possible.

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GDJMSP

Personally, I think they passed through the machine and that there was a malfunction. It occurred at both mints but apparently in far fewer numbers in Denver than in Philly. So if entire hoppers of the coins bypassed the edge process at both mints, why aren't larger numbers of them appearing from Denver ? I found one myself from a roll I purchased just to pass out to people - but only one.

I also think that the high speed at which the coins pass through the edge die (1000 per minute) has something to do with it.

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n_sandler4

Well, I agree with you on that=p...I don't believe that there are 140,000 ( a whole bag) of these errors out there from the Philadelphia mint. There must have been a malfunction of some sort. Perhaps they simply forgot to load the dies in, the Philadelphia ones are scratched on the edge a bit....All I know is, I'm holding on to the 120-ish I have left =)

Gusmyster

I'm clearly seeing alot of these gouges in the presidential dollar. They are all the same with a gouge on one side with a metal lip on the surface of the coin and a small indentation on the opposite side. If this is caused by machines other than the ones used in production why don't we see other coins with this same type of damage (for example Sacagaweas....aren't they the same size as the Presidential dollar and wouldn't you see a few Sacs with the same type of damage if they go through the same machines following minting?). I have not seen any Sacs with this type of damage/error.

Myster

sumorada

GDJMSP,thank you for your opinion, i totally agree,as most know by now the bulk of the "P" MINT ERRORS have been found in rolls dated feb 12th which only tells us that on whatever given day the mint had a problem and those (the bulk) were rolled at CWI on feb 12th, the guesses as to how many are out there so far has been based on bin size which i don't think has anything to do with it,at 1000 a minute and supposedley someone manning the machine,how many could have gotten through on that day before they did something,how closely are they watching?i can't believe that this could have gone on for any length of time,what do you think 20min,40 min? and who is to say it did'nt happen 5-6 times that day?

mikediamond

The gouge is definitely post-strike damage and probably post-production damage. The straitions on the reverse face are die scrapes, possibly from a mis-timed feeder finger.

Jim M

There you go folks. I do not believe that you will get a more accurate professional opinion than the one listed above.

post strike. Thanks Mike

Jim

Gusmyster

This still doesn't answer my questions from my previous post.

myster

satootoko

Maybe I missed the questions you mean.

What caused the gouges? - Most of the postings give the poster's opinion on that question.

What caused the scratches? - References to "post mint damage" and to "bag marks" seem to me to respond to that question.

Is there a third question in your original post that I am not seeing

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Gusmyster

The questions were:

If this is caused by machines other than the ones used in production why don't we see other coins with this same type of damage (for example Sacagaweas....aren't they the same size as the Presidential dollar and wouldn't you see a few Sacs with the same type of damage if they go through the same machines following minting?). I have not seen any Sacs with this type of damage/error.


myster

Conder101

Do the horizontal strike Schuler presses use feed fingers?

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Daggarjon

Great pics!! thanks for posting them. I bought 6 rolls of the washignton coins when they first came out and i heard about these 'godless' coins. Only 1 of mine was different, and it had the same kind of damage as in the pics you posted. However, mine is over the 'U' in unum.... Error, post mint damage... i may never know for certain.... but the damage has appeared on more then a few of these dollars, and only the dollars, so i will keep my coin, if only for its oddity =)

Gusmyster

Mike,

So let me get this straight, the feeder finger imparts these scratches onto the planchet prior to the strike? I guess that makes sense and would explain why they dissappear under the raised surfaces of the coin and then reappear in line with each other. Excuse my ignorance, but could the same effect be generated by a scratched or improperly polished die? Or is that simply not possible?

Myster