Gotta be something wrong with it...1877 Indian Head Penny...gotta be fake right?

Discussion in 'Coin Chat' started by mrshmooze, Nov 24, 2012.

  1. mrshmooze

    mrshmooze New Member

    Gotta be a fake, but the front 2 feathers look ok to me. Also the last feather in the head dress points between the "I" and the "C" in "America." Every fake I have seen the last feather points between the C and the A in America similar to the later Indians, such as the 1909. The material isn't porous, and the weight a few hundreth's of a gram light (acceptable imo). Problem I am having is that it is a highly counterfeited, ungraded coin that is not at a certified coin dealers location. Guy has other coins that I know are genuine, but I am weary to buy. If legit, the price is about 1/3 below my estimated value/grade.

    Your thoughts.


    1877 Indian (2).JPG 1877 Indian (6).JPG 1877 Indian (9).JPG 1877 Indian (16).JPG




    Thanks
     
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  3. mrshmooze

    mrshmooze New Member

    Here is a pic of a fake I recently saw...Notice where the last feather is pointing; Incorrectly I might add.

    why 1877 fake.jpg

    The 1st line is the correct position, line 2 is the counterfeit's flaw in this case.
     
  4. Gedon_Althor

    Gedon_Althor Member

    I find it easier to note the center branch of the "E"s... All of the "E"s on the obverse have very narrow connections at the (is it called the middle serif?)??? anyway, it is too thin... especially when compared to other indian heads. Consider also that the lack of wear should have a bolder center serif on those "E"s where it connects to the vertical bar on the left side of the character..... just my observations.
     
  5. chip

    chip Novice collector

    Two reverse dies were used for circulation examples, both had a weak N in cent. It is possible that a proof went out into circulation, (unlikely, but possible). I would only buy this one if the dealer had a strong return policy and was easy to locate.

    This information I picked up from Richard Snows Guide book of Flying Eagle and Indian head cents.
     
  6. mrshmooze

    mrshmooze New Member

    They said they accept returns if I have it graded and it came back BS. Is it worth the fees?
     
  7. Cazkaboom

    Cazkaboom One for all, all for me.

    I am 98% sure it is fake. The Ns on the reverse are too strong.
     
  8. chip

    chip Novice collector

    I would say yes, worth the grading fees, but I do not know your dealer well enough to know if I would get it in writing or if he is a word is his bond type of fellow. According to snow, many of the fakes were made from 1875 and 1879 cents, thus the difference in the shallow or the strong N in cent
     
  9. mrshmooze

    mrshmooze New Member

  10. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    This one has me wanting to argue both ways. The images are a bit small. There were proofs but the N in ONE looks too weak on your coin. Can you see any signs of a clash mark above the O in ONE? With that I would probably think it's real. Without it, I would want to send it in to be sure.
     
  11. RedRaider

    RedRaider Well-Known Member

    Definitely a fake......unless a circulated proof, which I have my doubts on. Here is what the business strike should look like........Note the weak "N" reverse and the middle serifs are "T" shaped, not trumpet shaped like the coin pictured above.

    6307-17110-thickbox.jpg 6307-17111-thickbox.jpg
     
  12. ldhair

    ldhair Clean Supporter

    Great image RedRaider. It shows the clash above the O in ONE really well. It's scarce for the 77 to not show this clash.
     
  13. RedRaider

    RedRaider Well-Known Member

    Looking closer at the date, it looks a little off to me. The second 7 does not look like the first one. If I had to guess, this is an altered 1879 IHC.
     
  14. mrweaseluv

    mrweaseluv Supporter! Supporter

    I have to agree with RR on this one. I was flip-flopping because of the strong Ns but not all had weak n's just most. The 2nd 7 however does not look right either add that to the strong Ns and I have to think it is just a very good fake.
     
  15. Tom B

    Tom B TomB Everywhere Else

    I would not buy that as an 1877 IHC.
     
  16. mrshmooze

    mrshmooze New Member

    Cool thanks all. Yeah, I was struggling more with the second 7 too. It's tempting though. I like the in writing return policy idea. Think it maybe worth a gamble and send it in.
     
  17. RedRaider

    RedRaider Well-Known Member

    Keep us updated if you do send it in as we all can learn from pieces like this.
     
  18. Jwt708

    Jwt708 Well-Known Member

    This is a really informative thread and makes me even more nervous about online orders.
     
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