Thread: 1954-S Toned Franklin Half – Guess its grade before submittal to PCGS

Originally Posted by BUncirculated

But you would have me take what's on the CAC website as law, even though CAC is not a grading service but a grade/attribution/designation verification service, which is really nothing more than for marketing for sellers of slabbed coins.

You posted their link, not me.

FYI, it is possible the TPG mistakenly FBLed a Franklin that shouldn't have it, they do make mistakes as grading is highly subjective.

TPG can make bigger mistakes than things that are really just a matter of opinion. I once saw a 1970s lincoln cent in an NGC slab labeled as a small date when in fact it was a large date

Ngc?

Originally Posted by bsowa1029

TPG can make bigger mistakes than things that are really just a matter of opinion. I once saw a 1970s lincoln cent in an NGC slab labeled as a small date when in fact it was a large date

Yes they can, and IMO not worth the expense to submit coins to for any reason.

However, my belief on the FBL designation of the Franklin series is both sets of the bell's lines should be full, distinguishable, and uninterrupted by any mark or wear.

Being in the attic may have contributed to the AT/91 designation. Attics can reach some high temps in the summer, and chemicals in the album may have altered the surfaces of the coins in this setting.

Being somewhat new to the toning aspect of coins but getting educated by these forums I have to ask. What is the difference between sitting in a mint bag and developing toning versus sitting in a coin album for many years and developing toning? Bulls eye toning happens in coin albums but is viewed as natural or am I missing something?

If someone deliberately applied chemicals to a coin to cause this then I say they should be persecuted for fraud.

Originally Posted by Glenn5691

I have to say that I'm very upset by what I just saw on the PCGS website for my order status. They have deemed the coin "questionable color" which really upsets me knowing the origin of this coin having sat in a coin book in an attic for over 20 years. I'll have to rethink sending the rest of my collection to them.

There is no grade assigned to it and just code 91 about the color. I have quite a few Washington quarters with bulls eye that are gorgeous but thinking it will be a waste of money to send to them since they came out of an album also. The thing that makes me mad is it's almost like they are calling me a liar and saying that I put the color on there. Guess I need to cool off but thanks everyone for voicing your opinions on this.

One has to wonder if their guarantee policy makes them grade things on the very conservative side?

You need to remember that the TPG doesn't know anything about the storage conditions of the coin in question. They have to judge it solely on the merits of the coin as they see it. When they deem a coin to have questionable color, it does not mean that they think you artificially toned the coin. All it means is that the color on the coin is not market acceptable in their eyes and the coin is a problem coin. I submit to you that just as artificially toning a coin is a valid reason to call a coin a problem coin so is improper storage. When you store a coin in an album in an attic for 2 decades with fluctuating temperatures and humidities, that is improper storage and certainly can lead to toning that would be deemed questionable by the TPG and other collectors alike.

Can you provide us with a photograph of the coin in question or the other coins that you thinking about submitting?

Here is a picture of one I happen to have on this computer and have quite a few of these I pulled out of the albums with some better than this and some just plain ugly.

Originally Posted by Lehigh96

You need to remember that the TPG doesn't know anything about the storage conditions of the coin in question. They have to judge it solely on the merits of the coin as they see it. When they deem a coin to have questionable color, it does not mean that they think you artificially toned the coin. All it means is that the color on the coin is not market acceptable in their eyes and the coin is a problem coin. I submit to you that just as artificially toning a coin is a valid reason to call a coin a problem coin so is improper storage. When you store a coin in an album in an attic for 2 decades with fluctuating temperatures and humidities, that is improper storage and certainly can lead to toning that would be deemed questionable by the TPG and other collectors alike.

Can you provide us with a photograph of the coin in question or the other coins that you thinking about submitting?

And I wish my parents had given me the collection instead of storing them in their attic which I had no idea about. All the ones in pill bottles survived and are still blast white for the most part. She had a lot of coins wrapped in this thin gold foil looking like those chocolate candy gold coins that I would get when I was a kid. Good thing I didn't throw them out lol.

Would love to hear your opinions on whether this was appropriately graded at MS65? The only tick noticiable under magnification is the one on the brow.

That is very disappointing news, but not entirely unheard of.

If you believe it the coin, consider resubmitting it, or try NGC, who tends to be a bit looser with color.

Originally Posted by Glenn5691

I have to say that I'm very upset by what I just saw on the PCGS website for my order status. They have deemed the coin "questionable color" which really upsets me knowing the origin of this coin having sat in a coin book in an attic for over 20 years. I'll have to rethink sending the rest of my collection to them.

Typical PCGS, I'm fairly certain you'll get MS66 out of NGC.

I really do appreciate the comments that everyone is giving. The pictures really make the coin look horrible and will have to wait to get them back and take some better ones. It was really tough taking pictures of it with the glare coming off it and in hand it looked gorgeous.

The 1964D toned Washington that I posted pictures of above is what I'm now concerned about. If they are going to call the Franklin questionable coloring than what will they say about all the Washington's I pulled out of the albums? They came from the same set of boxes that the other coins were packed in. Will I be wasting my money sending those if they look like the one above?

Originally Posted by Glenn5691

Here is a picture of one I happen to have on this computer and have quite a few of these I pulled out of the albums with some better than this and some just plain ugly.

try PCGS secure plus service... if it passes the coin sniffer test, then it will be graded. If not, then no grade.

Originally Posted by Market Harmony

try PCGS secure plus service... if it passes the coin sniffer test, then it will be graded. If not, then no grade.

Do you mean to say that as long as a coin passes their coin sniffer test then they will not question the toning? If that was the case then they owe it to their clients to take anything they deem questionable and run it through the sniffer. Or is it a ploy to get higher grading fees?

Personally I feel that their grade guarantee is causing them to be ultra conservative after viewing their statistics posted on their site about how much they have had to reimburse for over graded coins. According to their site they have paid out over $41K in warranty claims in the last 30 days. I'm sure that is cutting into their profit margins.

Originally Posted by Lehigh96

You need to remember that the TPG doesn't know anything about the storage conditions of the coin in question. They have to judge it solely on the merits of the coin as they see it. When they deem a coin to have questionable color, it does not mean that they think you artificially toned the coin. All it means is that the color on the coin is not market acceptable in their eyes and the coin is a problem coin. I submit to you that just as artificially toning a coin is a valid reason to call a coin a problem coin so is improper storage. When you store a coin in an album in an attic for 2 decades with fluctuating temperatures and humidities, that is improper storage and certainly can lead to toning that would be deemed questionable by the TPG and other collectors alike.

Can you provide us with a photograph of the coin in question or the other coins that you thinking about submitting?

And I really wish they would just call it "market unacceptable toning" instead of confusing collectors with the stupid "AT" or "questionable" description. It all boils down to what they want in their holders, nothing more. Toned coin collectors are going to always demand and buy toned coins regardless of ANY TPG's opinion.