Thread: Why pay more for MS65 over 64?

Originally Posted by Detecto

With some coins, a Grade of MS63 can be much lower than MS65 in price.

However with some coins, little difference can be seen with the naked eye.

So why would people pay more for a MS65 coin over MS64 or 3?

From your other posts in this thread, it sounds like you're saying "Why buy a 65 if you see a 64 or a 63 that you like better?" And the answer is, collect what you like And unless you're planning to buy and sell sight unseen, those numbers on the slabs don't matter much

Originally Posted by Detecto

So why would people pay more for a MS65 coin over MS64 or 3?

For various reasons...but primarily for the same reason by which you're asking this on a forum and not on a monologic blog.

Detecto the biggest problem is that you don't realize or understand what the difference is between a 63, a 64 and a 65. Once you understand those differences, you won't need to ask this question.

And I'm not trying to be a wise guy, I'm just telling you the truth.

For what it's worth, here is the differentiation from numismedia:




MS 63 - This is the grade that many collectors feel is the most collectible in numismatics. Prices are typically reasonable compared to higher grades and the coin should have at least an average strike and eye appeal, with minimal distracting marks.
MS 64 - This is the grade where prices in many series begin to increase dramatically. For this reason the coin will begin to show fewer marks and the strike will be the strongest yet. No primary distractions that will draw your eye. A near-gem coin with just a few tiny marks or weakness in strike to keep it from a higher grade.
MS 65 - This is the gem category. Coin should be fully struck with eye appeal. Either brilliant or toned but there should not be any unsightly marks or color that negates eye appeal. Any marks should be very minor in appearance. Prices spread out even further.

Also, photograding books are important, as well as comprehending the text to the actual picture.

And that's a large part of the reason why so many people have such a hard time learning how to grade treehugger. They seen things like that published that have nothing to do with actual grading standards and even worse they are not even close to accurate.

Originally Posted by Hunt1

Also, photograding books are important, as well as comprehending the text to the actual picture.

Trying to learn how to grade based on pictures is a terrible idea Hunter. Unless you are using hundreds of pictures for each individual grade and for each individual coin.

Originally Posted by GDJMSP

Trying to learn how to grade based on pictures is a terrible idea Hunter. Unless you are using hundreds of pictures for each individual grade and for each individual coin.

Doug, instead of telling everyone what they shouldn't do, why don't you actually make a constructive suggestion on where they should start? And, saying that "you need to be old with 60+ years of grading" is not a constructive suggestion. The number of years one has been collecting has nothing to do with their ability to grade coins, as for all we know they have been doing it wrong for the whole time.

Just a thought.

Doug,

For some reason i cannot quote your message in a quick reply. I meant by my post that cross referencing text information about grades, and then comparing those to pictures is key. I did not mean soley basing your grading off pictures, that's redundant. As goes the same for basing your grading off of text.

Originally Posted by Detecto

I understand paying more money for coins with a largely noticeable difference in grade. I can see paying a lot more for an Au-50

Here is an MS-60 Seated Half.


and here is a MS-63.



Would you pay for more the MS-63? I would not. The pepper toning is distracting.

I am not a grader or a very strong collector. I do love lustre in the fields. Given the two half Libertys examples you have provided, I could easily see paying the higher premium for the MS63. For me it would not be about the grade, it would be about the lustre. Also, if the coin choice was just a matter of filling a set, and I could not dig up the funds for the MS63, I might call it good and be happy for the other. However, after seeing the MS63, not sure if I would still be content with the MS60. Call me a pig for lustre.

When it comes to bullion pieces where there are 20,000 or so MS70 ASE potentially out there, that is where I do not get too excited about the grade. For me, it is more about the coin in the end - like you have suggested.

Originally Posted by GDJMSP

Trying to learn how to grade based on pictures is a terrible idea Hunter. Unless you are using hundreds of pictures for each individual grade and for each individual coin.

I did not realize that - the part about it not being a good idea to try to make associations about grading from pics. Interesting.

Luster plays a major roll in grades too. When considering blast white coins typically the luster is far superior on a 65 compared to a 63. Most of the time this is not recognizable in pictures on a computer.

Many gold coins are hard to tell the difference. Morgans are probably the easiest to see the quality difference.

In collectible hobbies, people pay for quality even if it is barely incrementally better. You can buy a Nolan Ryan rookie for $250 in a lower grade if you want. Or you can get one that is slightly better centered and sharper corners for $700. You can say theyre the same card but not to collectors. Or the guy selling it. This isnt a new concept.

You may as well ask why theres a numismatic premium on any coin over their metal value.

Originally Posted by treehugger

For what it's worth, here is the differentiation from numismedia:




MS 63 - This is the grade that many collectors feel is the most collectible in numismatics. Prices are typically reasonable compared to higher grades and the coin should have at least an average strike and eye appeal, with minimal distracting marks.
MS 64 - This is the grade where prices in many series begin to increase dramatically. For this reason the coin will begin to show fewer marks and the strike will be the strongest yet. No primary distractions that will draw your eye. A near-gem coin with just a few tiny marks or weakness in strike to keep it from a higher grade.
MS 65 - This is the gem category. Coin should be fully struck with eye appeal. Either brilliant or toned but there should not be any unsightly marks or color that negates eye appeal. Any marks should be very minor in appearance. Prices spread out even further.

All this is good and dandy until you try to grade a $5.00 Indian. When I first joined CT, I participated in several coin grading contests for fun. Boy did I learn a lot. That was a very eye opening experience for me. I was not born a grader. I would need to work at it.

Originally Posted by Detecto

With some coins, a Grade of MS63 can be much lower than MS65 in price.
However with some coins, little difference can be seen with the naked eye.
So why would people pay more for a MS65 coin over MS64 or 3?

Because MS-65 can be considered a complete full grade above MS-64.
See “Pricing Relationships of United States Type Coinage”, The American Journal of Numismatics Second Series, vol. 23, pages 257 – 263 (2011) for a more detailed explanation as to why.