Thread: Opinions: Best $1K Numismatic Invesment For The Best Return?

Originally Posted by JCB1983

I don't understand these statement such as "coins are a horrible investment." I have price guides from the 1960's-90's and the markup in coin values is way ahead of the inflation rates. I am curious as to if some people are speaking from their own personal experience, or just never held on to a series long enough.

Jason, well first you have to have bought problem free coins at a fair price to begin with. That right there destroys many collectors' returns. Even if that was accomplished, then you have the fact that you will not SELL them at today's prices if sold to a dealer. You may get 50% of today's price guide.

Couple those two facts together and you get a poor return financially. Numismatic items have their return in personal enjoyment, not financial unless you are a dealer typically.

Lots of great thoughts on this thread OP. Now, put a gun to me head and make me answer it, I would say a superlatively high grade ancient silver coin. My choice would either be a superb Alexander Tet from an unusual mint, (maybe Babylon), or a superb example of a nicer, (not too nice as $1000 would not cover it), Roman Republican denari. Ancients have been going up stronger than US coins for quite a while now, and superb condition coins are always popular with new collectors.

Chris

Chris I was following you until you mentioned selling them to a dealer? That is just common sense. Nuismatics are a poor investment is a very bold statement. There are many a fella who are fishing and putsing around on putting greens in the carribean because of their investment in coins. Just my opinion. I really do not want to offend anyone here, I did not live during these times, but the price guides don't lie. 6.50 for a XF half bust!? Even the mention of "problem free coin." Every "problem free coin" which is now in the market, was in existance in the 60's-90's. (Old. U.S. Coinage).

Originally Posted by medoraman

Jason, well first you have to have bought problem free coins at a fair price to begin with. That right there destroys many collectors' returns. Even if that was accomplished, then you have the fact that you will not SELL them at today's prices if sold to a dealer. You may get 50% of today's price guide.

Couple those two facts together and you get a poor return financially. Numismatic items have their return in personal enjoyment, not financial unless you are a dealer typically.

Lots of great thoughts on this thread OP. Now, put a gun to me head and make me answer it, I would say a superlatively high grade ancient silver coin. My choice would either be a superb Alexander Tet from an unusual mint, (maybe Babylon), or a superb example of a nicer, (not too nice as $1000 would not cover it), Roman Republican denari. Ancients have been going up stronger than US coins for quite a while now, and superb condition coins are always popular with new collectors.

Chris

The problem with unique coins like that is that they require specialized knowledge and the caveats on collecting ancients and colonial coins for example need to be magnified as the risk of buying a "unique", PQ or other investment coin that turns out to be hard to sell at the desired price level is great.

For me the criteria would be, popularity, low risk, easily ascertained grade and value based on current auction records and good for grade. Every year we have seen type gold, Morgan dollars, etc., go through variations in price and premiums relative to the metal price. Last year a national dealer was offering $50 for MS60 or better Morgans. If you were able to get a roll of true UNCs for under $1000, paying $30 or $35 a coin, you will certainly find a profit at some point. The problem is always guessing the top, no one knows when the curve has reached its apex.

Originally Posted by Owle

The problem with unique coins like that is that they require specialized knowledge and the caveats on collecting ancients and colonial coins for example need to be magnified as the risk of buying a "unique", PQ or other investment coin that turns out to be hard to sell at the desired price level is great.

But the coins I mentioned I specifically chose very common coins. There are tens and tens of thousands of these around. If I wanted to quote on some unique coins, believe me I know some weird ones. Alex tets and Roman Republicans are two of the most collected, widely available ancients there are. I would venture to say every ancient auction has at least 100 of these coins for sale.

2011 US Army Mintage gold comm only 8012 struck. with that low of mintage Gold spot price may not factor in the price of the coin

I would get a nice collectible coin because the price can only go up. I would get a nice graded large cent like this one: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1854-Large-C...ht_1762wt_1110

Originally Posted by JCB1983

Chris I was following you until you mentioned selling them to a dealer? That is just common sense. Nuismatics are a poor investment is a very bold statement. There are many a fella who are fishing and putsing around on putting greens in the carribean because of their investment in coins. Just my opinion. I really do not want to offend anyone here, I did not live during these times, but the price guides don't lie. 6.50 for a XF half bust!? Even the mention of "problem free coin." Every "problem free coin" which is now in the market, was in existance in the 60's-90's. (Old. U.S. Coinage).

Well I was saying if you bought a problem coin in the 60's for $4 your return today would not be nearly as strong as if you bought the problem free $6.50 one. 50 years is a long time financially. That same $6.50 in 1962 growing at only 5% interest is now $700 Jason. That is what the price would have to be for it to roughly match inflation. Even matching inflation is not a "great return", and these coins do not even do that. If you bought the coin for $6.50, how much would a dealer pay today for it? How much would a dealer pay for a problem XF today that maybe you paid $4 for? $4 turns into $430 today, do you think its still a good investment? I have about 80 XF/AU capped bust halves Jason, will you pay me anything near these prices if I walked in today? $700 for all my common XF capped bust halves, and I would have to sell.

Listen, coin collecting is a great hobby. You spend countless hours of times enjoying yourself, learning new things about history and geography, socializing with others, etc. And, when you are done, you have some value left. This is superior to most hobbies like boating, mountain climbing, race car driving, etc which are pure expense and nothing is left over. However, its a hobby, so should not be confused with real investments in which you are gambling your retired life and security on. Those are a different topic.

Chris

So I guess most of my coin "investments" would be more properly called modified-bullion PM investments (the hedge against inflation portion of my portfolio), since I try to pay a minimum premium over spot, and I'd always expect to be able to sell them close to spot. NOT numismatic investments. Of course if the OP chose to add the parameter of time...

Originally Posted by JCB1983

I don't understand these statement such as "coins are a horrible investment." I have price guides from the 1960's-90's and the markup in coin values is way ahead of the inflation rates. I am curious as to if some people are speaking from their own personal experience, or just never held on to a series long enough.

you will not hear me saying that "coins are a horrible investment"- on the whole I am ahead

copper isnt a great investment but if i can get 300 oz for $325 i think that i can make a profit, albeit a small profit

Originally Posted by Danr

you will not hear me saying that "coins are a horrible investment"- on the whole I am ahead

You are? If you factor in inflation, (or time value of money), and had to sell today, you would be ahead? I doubt I would be. Its easy to be ahead of purchase price if you hold onto them long enough, but inflation eats away your return every year.....

And, a coin is only worth what somebody will pay you for it... right now. Which implies the existence of a buyer (a coin dealer would never be so generous as to give you full retail). Whereas I can cash out my savings account whenever i want.

Originally Posted by Mark14

copper isnt a great investment but if i can get 300 oz for $325 i think that i can make a profit, albeit a small profit

10 oz for a dollar is much better, course you have to figure in your sort time. But equate that to the fun of the hobby & you're golden. @ $25 a box there's no way to lose.

Originally Posted by medoraman

You are? If you factor in inflation, (or time value of money), and had to sell today, you would be ahead? I doubt I would be. Its easy to be ahead of purchase price if you hold onto them long enough, but inflation eats away your return every year.....

yea-still ahead-no doubt about it-

Originally Posted by Danr

yea-still ahead-no doubt about it- the 25th anniversary eagle sets and US army halves were good to me...as were the spouses (2007's and 2008's were about $500 from mint).

Fair enough sir. I bought 5 sets of the ASE's but still am sure I am short overall. If you count me buying a couple thousand ounces of silver at $4 into it, I may be closer but that was bought as an investment, not for coin collecting. Its ok though, if you count up the value of the enjoyment I have received from these over the years is still a great return on my dollars, its just my returns are in enjoyment, not necessarily financial.