ranchhand

your speaking my language cloudsweeper

I would like to point out an interesting thing that happened to me:
When i purchased my saint i asked the dealer what he thought it would grade at, he picked the coin up, looked at it for a split second, said "MS-64" and handed it to me. he had many of them at the time, and it was not labeled as MS-64, just as BU.

I purchased the coin (for ms-60 prices i might add) and sent it to PCGS. it came back MS-64.
The dealer was right on the nose...

Even though the graders move at speed I believe that when you have reached that level of grading you CAN grade that fast, think about it, these people grade ALL DAY! Every day!
I have also seen my dealer look at a coin and nail the grade almost instantly. If the coin is above MS-66 they tend to give it a harder look...

so... any one ever send coins to SEGS or PCI or ICG???

LibertyBell

This is a quote from a thread in the US Coins forum on this board.

Here is a prime example of why I have little confidece in TPGs.

Steve

ranchhand

yes, and the ebyer makes sure to mention the error and that it is being sent back to PCGS for fixing. people can and do make mistakes. I would say that this is a very benign mistake.

has anyone on these boards sent anything in to SEGS or PCI?

LibertyBell

Be sure to let your heart surgeon know how forgiving you are.

It's easy to challenge a mint-mark mistake. Try getting them to correct a grading error and see what their response is.

Speedy

My dealer sends coins to PCI all the time---he just loves them because of the fast turn around time.
Also they are cheap---their grading isn't all that good---I find that I agree with them more than some other grading companies----I count them on my list of grading companys and have gotten some good coins in their slabs cheaper just becasuse of that.
They are fine with detecting fake coins----my 1909-S VDB is in a PCI slab.
If you are looking at PCI slabs I would suggest that you not go by the grade on the holder---sometimes they are right on but not always.

Speedy

__________________
Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over

WINS - ANA - CONECA -

ranchhand

So... are you comparing coin graders to heart surgeons?
Even surgeons make mistakes, but seriously.. no one ever died because of a mistake in the grading or encapsulation of a coin. I would bet a few heart attacks could be attributed to someone getting a coin back body bagged though
I have never had a problem with a grade that a coin has come back as, i have even had coins body bagged and used it as a learning experience.

Thanks for the info on PCI speedy!

LibertyBell

You're a lucky guy. I pulled an FBL Franklin from a roll my father got at the bank when I was a boy. I remember going with him on such excursions. The coin came back body-bagged as improperly cleaned. I called NGC, as I felt the coin should have probably been a 66 at least. I was told that I could resubmit it, for another grading fee of course.

You see, I understand that people make mistakes. TPGs, or NGC in this case, just showed me far too much arrogance in telling me to resubmit the coin and pay another fee. At the very least, it should have been a free re-submission. My personal opinion --- and it is an opinion so please don't start flaming me --- is that only large-volume submitters ever get an MS66 FBL or better. Maybe you, Ranchhand, have had better experiences with TPGs. If so, congratulations and keep right on submitting. As for me, I'll trust my own expertise garnered from my years of experience and my interactions with reputable coin dealers, and go for the raw coin whenever possible.

I'll let all you folks go ahead and rebut, as you no doubt will. I've had my say and don't wish to be drawn any deeper into the debate. You obviously like the TPGs and I don't. I doubt I'll win you over to my opinion and I know you won't win me over to yours.

Dabalzak

I don't have any real expensive coins as of yet. I was wondering what you guys think of using UGS on some 2001 Kennedy halves and 06 sackajawea* coins just to see if I can get any graded at 70 and then maybe send any 70's to NGC or PCGS to get regraded. If this was done it seems likely that it might be dropped to a 69 though. I just can't see sending in a possible 10 dollar valued coin in and spending atleast 16 dollars to find that out.. yanno.
When I saw that a 2006 silver quarter graded at 70 is worth over 400 dollars it made me think that it wouldn't hurt to get some of my coins graded.
any opinions?

Speedy

IMHO you should learn how to grade before you send any off---and then send off the one that you think you should---a 70 is a grade that I don't even count----there will always be a mark or a nick somwhere IMO--even some of the expert grades miss the 70 grade....they send in a coin that they think is good and it comes back lower.

Speedy

__________________
Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over

WINS - ANA - CONECA -

airedale

Speedy I do not agree with this. There will not always be a mark or a nick. All grading services recognize the MS/PR 70. Maybe some old timers and would be old timers say a 70 cannot exist but in 1987 a 1986 ASE was the first coin to be graded MS70 by PCGS and many 70's have surfaced since. The US Mint really started to care for and preserve MS coins, at least commemoratives, in 1982 and proofs well before that. The 70 grade does exist and likely is here to stay. IMHO to say anything different is to mislead collectors, especially new ones.

__________________
John
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

Cloudsweeper99

There are no universally accepted and enforced grading standards.
Even if there were, grading is still a subjective judgement.
The TPGs vary in quality.
The hobby seems to attract scam artists.
The buying and selling of coins is about as laissez faire as things get these days.
Most TPGs just aren't very well run businesses.
None of the TPGs seems to want to compete on the basis of quality of customer service.

Add all of that together and there are going to be disappointments.

Speedy

PCGS I know has a thing to where you can send in a coin you think that they undergraded...you pay $5 and if they agree with you then that is sent back to you---I think NGC does that too but am not sure--you might want to call if you still have the coin and the bodybag and ask to talk to their PR man

no "Flaming" is a rule here so you don't need to worry about that---but I do disagree with you total---I have gotten some good grades from NGC and ANACS and have never sent in many---in fact it was my first NGC submit and I got great ones.

I also only trust my own grading and take the TPG's grade only after I have graded it myself--if I disagree with the TPG I take another look--if I still disagree that is too bad for the TPG.

I'm not going to try to win you over---I like Raw coins myself---but I do think that TPG's have their place in the hobby and use them.

Speedy

__________________
Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over

WINS - ANA - CONECA -

Bonedigger

Personally (no flames please ), I don't think TPGs belong any place in the hobby, maybe in the coin business, but definately not in the hobby.

Please post a picture of your Franklin. I'd love to see a beautiful example without it being covered in plastic.

Take Care
Ben

__________________
A few things to remember, Certification and Attribution are Absolute and Definitive. Grading, on the other hand IS NOT. STRIKE is everything, be it strong or weak.
Capped Bust Half Dollars Identification Reference
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

LibertyBell

I am debating whether to get a:
QX3/5 microscope
Macro Lens for my Canon 10D
Put the money toward my recently started Barber Dime Collection (The 1895-O is going to be a big bite).

When I do finally get pictures, I will post some though.

Steve

ranchhand

LibertyBell:
I do not want to flame you, far from it. I am sorry if it appeared like i was in your previous forum post (where i brought up why i like TPG) I understand you had a bad experience, and no one is forcing you to deal with TPG's. If i had an experience like yours right off the bat with a TPG i would probably have the same feelings you do. I like debates, and respect your opinion.

BoneDigger:
I would disagree with you about TPG having no place in the hobby, but you are perfectly reasonable with believing that they do not. I have always been of the opinion that if you do not like TPG's, then don't use them. go ahead and crack them out of their "coffins", its your choice.

--

Its kind of funny, the whole "to slab or not to slab" reminds me of the "Macintosh vs PC" wars, or the "ford is better then dodge" discussions... heck toned vs white as well Its just something i have noticed.

--

I would like to steer this discussion back on topic, with regards to opinions on TPG services (not the debate on TPG or not to TPG)

I just picked up my first batch of coins form ANACS and am THRILLED!
I will write up a full report tonight (with pictures) but here is my first reactions:

TOP NOTCH customer service, the individual I dealt with is named Bob... he really went above and beyond the call of duty. He was helpful, knowledgeable, and really treated me well. Most of the coins came back cleaned (more on that later)
He could have treated me like a no-body because i did not have "spectacular" coins, but he didn't. I did not feel like i was being talked down to, and no hint of arrogance. Far from it.
I submitted my coins "slow boat", and they STILL got them graded a WEEK ahead of schedule!!!!

as you can tell, i am very happy with ANACS right now. I will give all of the details of my submission tonight or tomorrow.