To slab or not to slab. - Page 4

**Speedy** · 01-14-2007, 09:19 AM

just a min---are you talking about a coin slabbed by NGC or INB??? from your first post it sounds like NGC??

It wasn't really had to guess the ASE---they are a newer coin and a good many grade MS70....there is also a problem with a way the mint washes the blank planchets before the coins are struck and many times months down the road---even years---small milk spots come up on the coins....put two and two together and when someone is talking about a coin that all of once had some small water spots on it---I would first guess ASE!

Speedy

900fine · 01-16-2007, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GDJMSP

Which is exactly what I suspected and why I asked. PCGS didn't even exist until 1986. That letter and those comments were written as part of advertising campaign promoting the new service - PCGS.

You see, up until that time there were only two grading services - ACG ( Accu-Grade ) and the ANA Grading Service. The ANA service of course was based upon the official grading standards of the ANA which were first published in 1977. But in '86 the ANA Board decided to change the standards. They all agreed that the older standards were much to lenient and that they needed to be tightened up. So they changed them and made them more strict. Coins that had previously been graded by ANA standards and deemed to be MS65, overnight became MS63's.

That's how that letter came to be. It actually had very little, if anything to do with the standards in use by PCGS - it had to do with the standards established by the ANA, and then changed to be more strict. Quite the opposite of what most folks think of when they talk of changing grading standards.

Excellent post, GDJMSP. Thanks for clarifying. I can understand how some might be unhappy with TPGs, but I've been very satisfied in my dealings with them.

JoshuaSawyer · 03-27-2007, 12:47 PM

I think people should use grading services that grade problem coins like PCI and ANACS they seem to grade costently. ANACS is best for grading lincoln cents.

**Daggarjon** · 03-27-2007, 01:20 PM

I love the idea behind TPG's. I have never sent one in to be slabbed, but have bought quite a few allready slabbed. I will buy the coin, and not the slab - but as National dealer mentioned in his original post, i use the TPG's almost like a crutch. I can look at 2 coins side by side, and almost guarentee that i will not be able to tell the diffference and why one is ms63 or ms64/5 (or any other grade). large spreads in grades are easier, but 1 or 2 points is not easy if not impossible for me. If i speant a considerable amount of time studying the coins and grades, i might be better able to tell the difference. But for me, coin collecting is about the coin, the history - not so nuch about the technical aspect of it being a 64 or 65. depending on the coin (and price) if its not slabbed, i will usually try and use a generic guide - VF has a hair that shows, EF has 3 our of 5 letters that show ... that type of guide.

coinage86 · 03-27-2007, 02:39 PM

The top 4 grading services see plenty of coins. they're opinion is he best. The coin market is still full of 60+ year old old-timers who got into the hobby in their younger days when there were no graders. The old-timers are mostly honest, they actually believe in the pencil-grades they put on their cardboard holders. but I dont like the uncertainty of self-grading. When I go to the coin show to sell a coin, I dont want to visit five dealers, to shop for the best grade offered. The hobby is a bunch of f---ed up b------ if that is what I have to do. I want SLABBED coins. I want to be able to trust the price I get at the FIRST table I go to. I buy only slabbed coins now. Buzz's coins in davie, florida goes to the show. George from Buzz's coins always gives me a fair price. If its in a PCGS or NGC holder, he doesnt try to dicker down the grade.

Bonedigger · 03-27-2007, 02:51 PM

Personally, I think the TPG companies are slowly killing each other off with all the back-stabbing and crackout upgrade gimmicks in an effort to wring every last dime out of the collecter. TPGs are simply like the MFP that used to be advertised in Colgate Toothpaste, or the DuPont UnderCoating for your new car. Snake-Oil... Real collecters don't need the service.

coinage86 · 03-28-2007, 09:27 AM

I dont know that under-coating is really a rip-off. Some people buy a car to keep it past its prime. I would have to get on an automotive website, and ask some car experts what the real statistics are, for rusted floorboards.

Arizona Jack · 08-03-2007, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Speedy

I don't know if y'all will agree with me, but I think it might be useful to use a lower cost grading services (like ANACS) for coins that you get at a good price and then later they go up--you might want to slab them to keep them from getting damaged.

I got a 1892-P Barber Half in F-12 for $2.00. To me that would be a good one to slab just because it's worth more then what I paid and so it won't be damaged.

One more thing....what about using grading services to help learn how to grade the MS grades??

I'm doing a set of proof franklins 1950-1963 all in PF-66. Since I'm not sure of myself when grading proofs I will only buy the coins slabbed.
(so far I have almost a complete set from 1956-1963...so have cameo and are higher grade then PF-66)

Just some thoughts....

Speedy

I built a set of PCGS 1881-S Morgans, AU thru MS-67, each and every grade. It's helpful just to have that referance, a 60, or a 62 or whatever. Next I'll do a P mint then an O mint.

Also have a set of 09-S Lincolns PCGS from VG thru AU-55, same thing. Not only fun, but a great way to build a true grading set referance.

Arizona Jack · 08-03-2007, 02:30 AM

Hmmm, Didn't mean to lie...Could not find all the 81-s's, but heres a look at a neat set anyways.

Ardatirion · 08-06-2007, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bonedigger

Personally, I think the TPG companies are slowly killing each other off with all the back-stabbing and crackout upgrade gimmicks in an effort to wring every last dime out of the collecter. TPGs are simply like the MFP that used to be advertised in Colgate Toothpaste, or the DuPont UnderCoating for your new car. Snake-Oil... Real collecters don't need the service.

AMEN BROTHER!

Treashunt · 08-06-2007, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arizona Jack

Hmmm, Didn't mean to lie...Could not find all the 81-s's, but heres a look at a neat set anyways.

Jack:
That is one great grading set.

Rareuniquecoins · 11-20-2007, 12:59 PM

I would only do PCGS or NGC. I can't tell you how many coin collectors I've talked to that regret their ICG coins. I'm sure ICG does a fine job grading but the market trusts PCGS and NGC. Reality is perception especially in coin collecting.

CHAMELEON · 11-20-2007, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rareuniquecoins

I'm sure ICG does a fine job grading but the market trusts PCGS and NGC. Reality is perception especially in coin collecting.

I DON'T THINK ANY OF THEM ARE FOOLPROOF. I'VE OWNED 1 ICG COIN THAT I THOUGHT WAS RIGHT ON FOR THE GRADE. FROM THE ICG GRADED COINS I'VE SEEN, THEY'VE BEEN PRETTY DARN CLOSE WITH THE GRADING. I'VE HAD SEVERAL DISAPPOINTMENTS WITH NGC SO FAR. I'VE HAD 4 OR 5 COINS THAT I THOUGHT WERE GRADED TOO HIGH, AND SEEN QUITE A FEW OTHERS AT SHOPS AND SHOWS. UNFORTUNATELY I'VE ALSO HAD SEVERAL COINS THAT THEY'VE UNDER-GRADED TOO. I HAVE 2 1941-S JEFFERSON NICKELS WITH FULL STEPS. ONE OF THEM HAS GORGEOUS ALBUM TONING AND HAS JUST SLIGHTLY CLEANER SURFACES. I SENT BOTH IN SEPARATELY. ONE CAME BACK MS-66FS (JUST AS I EXPECTED), BUT THE NICER OF THE TWO CAME BACK MS-65. I COULD NOT BELIEVE THAT IT DIDN'T GET AT LEAST THE FULL STEPS GRADE. THERE IS A $1,170 DIFFERENCE IN VALUE THERE. I'VE HAD ONE OTHER NICKEL COME BACK THE ANOTHER INSTANCE IS 2 IDENTICAL ALBUM TONED KENNEDY 1/2'S I SENT IN TOGETHER. BOTH WERE RETURNED IN BODY BAGS (ALONG WITH 6 OTHER COINS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN GRADED). THE COINS WERE ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME. ONE WAS IDENTIFIED AS ARTIFICIAL TONING, WHILE THE OTHER WAS BAGGED FOR AN IMPROPERLY CLEANED OBVERSE. IT WAS SIMPLY RIDICULOUS. THE LAST EXAMPLE I'LL GIVE IS A MONSTER TONED BUFFALO NICKEL I SENT IN THAT WAS BODY BAGGED FOR ARTIFICIAL TONING. I SENT IT BACK IN, AND IT CAME BACK MS-65. YOU NEVER REALLY KNOW HOW THOSE GUYS ARE GOING TO BE GRADING. I'VE DISAGREED WITH MANY OF NGC'S GRADINGS, BUT UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S WHAT THE MARKET GOES BY.

Rareuniquecoins · 11-21-2007, 11:34 AM

I agree that any service in the big four are going to get the grading right. It's just about who the public, at the end of the day, trust. A lot of people won't buy a coin graded by anyone but NGC or PCGS. Not saying it's the way it should be, just saying the way it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CHAMELEON

I DON'T THINK ANY OF THEM ARE FOOLPROOF. I'VE OWNED 1 ICG COIN THAT I THOUGHT WAS RIGHT ON FOR THE GRADE. FROM THE ICG GRADED COINS I'VE SEEN, THEY'VE BEEN PRETTY DARN CLOSE WITH THE GRADING. I'VE HAD SEVERAL DISAPPOINTMENTS WITH NGC SO FAR. I'VE HAD 4 OR 5 COINS THAT I THOUGHT WERE GRADED TOO HIGH, AND SEEN QUITE A FEW OTHERS AT SHOPS AND SHOWS. UNFORTUNATELY I'VE ALSO HAD SEVERAL COINS THAT THEY'VE UNDER-GRADED TOO. I HAVE 2 1941-S JEFFERSON NICKELS WITH FULL STEPS. ONE OF THEM HAS GORGEOUS ALBUM TONING AND HAS JUST SLIGHTLY CLEANER SURFACES. I SENT BOTH IN SEPARATELY. ONE CAME BACK MS-66FS (JUST AS I EXPECTED), BUT THE NICER OF THE TWO CAME BACK MS-65. I COULD NOT BELIEVE THAT IT DIDN'T GET AT LEAST THE FULL STEPS GRADE. THERE IS A $1,170 DIFFERENCE IN VALUE THERE. I'VE HAD ONE OTHER NICKEL COME BACK THE ANOTHER INSTANCE IS 2 IDENTICAL ALBUM TONED KENNEDY 1/2'S I SENT IN TOGETHER. BOTH WERE RETURNED IN BODY BAGS (ALONG WITH 6 OTHER COINS THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN GRADED). THE COINS WERE ALMOST EXACTLY THE SAME. ONE WAS IDENTIFIED AS ARTIFICIAL TONING, WHILE THE OTHER WAS BAGGED FOR AN IMPROPERLY CLEANED OBVERSE. IT WAS SIMPLY RIDICULOUS. THE LAST EXAMPLE I'LL GIVE IS A MONSTER TONED BUFFALO NICKEL I SENT IN THAT WAS BODY BAGGED FOR ARTIFICIAL TONING. I SENT IT BACK IN, AND IT CAME BACK MS-65. YOU NEVER REALLY KNOW HOW THOSE GUYS ARE GOING TO BE GRADING. I'VE DISAGREED WITH MANY OF NGC'S GRADINGS, BUT UNFORTUNATELY THAT'S WHAT THE MARKET GOES BY.

Sharpblue · 01-25-2008, 11:27 AM

Just for people who may be new to this. In addition to the top 4 there are some decent TPG's. I've had good results with SEGs for instance. However, many, if not most, of the other slabbers on Ebay are worse than incompetent.
They are actually owned by dealers in many cases and are used to boost the selling value on Ebay and are financialy motivated to fluff up the grade. AU's and even XF's are graded MS something. I once bought a MS66 slabbed Seated Liberty Half that looked ok in the picture but when I got the coin it was clearly improperly cleaned. On Ebay the rule should be buy the picture (even this isn't always safe...photo wizardry) and RUN from the slab.

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