Midas

I watched the "grading" seminar that took place at the FUN show this past January. Bower, Travers and all of the big guys in numismatics were there taking questions. Matter of fact, you can watch the video of this meeting by going to PCGS's website:

http://www.pcgs.com/articles/article...universeid=313

One thing I took away from listening to these guys is that no two coins are identical. No two MS69's are identical. One may have a hair line here and the other else where. Still, both coins may grade out at the same grade, but we really have to state, they are NOT the same!

The purpose of my analysis was to demonstrate that some of these numbers from PCGS to NGC are dramatically differant. I hear from supporters of NGC that NGC obviously gets more 70 coins coming across their submission tables than PCGS, but I don't buy it. When you see NGC hand out 3, 5, 7, 10 times more 70 grades than PCGS, you would think the market would respond...and the market has!

For instance, I talked to many dealers about this subject just yesterday at the Palm Beach Show in West Palm. One dealer had boxes and boxes of NGC slabbed coins for sale. $15 per NGC slab, $20 per NGC graded coin all the way to $40. He had two tables of just a hodge podge of all NGC slabbed coins for less than $40. (right across from the NGC booth who was sponsoring this meeting!) This dealer had 100's of PR69UCAM 2004 and 2005 nickels for sale at $15 each! (no Bison's) and he told me that he is trying to get rid of them because there are so many out there. Another dealer told me, that if a modern is graded PR69UCAM by NGC, it is worth at least 25% less than "same" coin slabbed by PCGS! He summed it up as "market perception" and that NGC is more liberal on grading proofs and MS coins than PCGS. Don't beleive me...Look up a Lincoln MS66RD for any date from 1930 going forward. PCGS's MS66RD's cost and sell for WAY more dollars than NGC MS66RD Lincolns. Are all of these buyers that stupid...or do these buyers trust a PCGS 66RD more so than a NGC66RD? Somebody (a lot of somebody's) is demonstrating this market forces in action!

Sure they are exceptions here and there...but all things being equal, what I have seen, and dealers have told me face-to-face that if you have a 1914-D Lincoln graded by PCGS as AU55 and the same coin graded by NGC as AU55, the PCGS coin will sell for dramatically more dollars. Blame it on registry sets!?! Well, NGC has registry sets too!

I buy slabbed coins for a number of reasons outlined in "why slabs?", but when it comes to liquidating my collection (goal date of 2010), I want the highest bucks I can get...and I will realize that with PCGS over everybody else hands down!

__________________

“It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.” - John Wooden

airedale

Good Reading! Thanks to all.

__________________
John
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

walterallen

This is a great topic and thanks for this post Midas. Now my question is this. With all the hoopla about the difference between PF69 and PF70, the subjectiveness of the TPS's, why is it that when your coin is graded by whom ever, there is no report or reason given for the subjectiveness of the grade? If graders are sitting there viewing coin after coin and making determinations via "their companies guidelines" then there should be a "reason for giving a 69 instead of a 70. Otherwise it is almost luck of the draw that your coin will get a grader who is feeling well, not angry at the world, or just loves to give "good" grades. The bottom line is there is no bottom line. You get what you get with no explaination. For the money spent and the potential money involved I for one think grades given to coins should be justifyable to some degree. No?

__________________
Peace on Earth, Good Will Towards Man

Midas

That question was asked at the FUN forum. Bottom line...COST!! You could have 10 of the 10 top numismatics grade your coin for one nice average grade among all of them, but who is willing to spend $2 to $300 per coin per grading with a detailed report about why your coin received "X" grade?

It is a cost of doing business issue. Maybe for an additional $5 they could give you a paragraph summary, but that will add more time to process submissions.

__________________

“It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.” - John Wooden

GDJMSP

The phrase that was used to explain why PCGS coins bring higher prices - market perception - is exactly correct. But now you should ask yourself - how did the market arrive at this perception ?

To answer that, first of all let's remember that we are talking about modern coins here - 1965 and later. And the reason for the market's perception is that for 15 years, PCGS was the only game in town when it came to modern coins. You see, until 2000, ( or was it 2001 ? ), NGC would not even grade coins dated 1965 or later. So collectors couldn't submit them to NGC even if they wanted to.

There was only one other company that had any respect at the time and that was ANACS. But when collectors submitted moderns to ANACS they came back with low grades. And the collectors and dealers didn't like that because then they couldn't sell the coins for very much. But if they submitted the same coin to PCGS it got a higher grade and they were able to make substantial profits on sales. The result was, hardly anybody would submit moderns to ANACS. That left only one - PCGS.

Now it's pretty hard to NOT gain the reputation of being " THE " company to submit modern coins to when you're the ONLY company to submit modern coins to - at least if you wanted a WOW grade so you could sell your coins for a profit. So after 15 years of that - the market perception was pretty much formed.

Now NGC steps into the story. They decided they wanted a share of the profits being made by slabbing modern coins. The SQ craze was taking off, moderns were at last popular because of all the new collectors. Prior to that, most collectors wouldn't touch a modern coin - wouldn't even bother with them. Which is why NGC wouldn't slab them to begin with. But now the profits were there for doing so and they changed their policy.

But have you ever tried to remove a deeply entrenched company from their niche in the marketplace ? It aint easy because your fighting against, you got it - market perception. But in the past 5 years NGC has been plodding along trying to do just that. And they've been trying to do it by being consistent just like they always were. And they've been gaining ground. There was a time when PCGS would slab 30,000 coins a month more than NGC did. Now - NGC slabs 50,000 coins a month than PCGS does. There was a time when a coin of a given grade in a PCGS slab sold for almost double what the same coin would sell for if it was in an NGC slab. Today that number has dropped to 10 - 15% more - and it's still dropping. Slowly but surely, people are becoming aware.

Now - given the above, I have always found it utterly amazing that a company could gain the reputation of being the company with the toughest grading standards when they were actually the company with the easiest grading standards - PCGS vs ANACS. You've gotta remember NGC wasn't even in the game at the time. But nonetheless they did gain that reputation - all because of market perception.

As I've said at least a thousand times - people believe what they want to believe. Nothing is ever gonna change that. But you should at least consider the entire story before forming that belief.

Oh yeah, and just in case somebody thinks I might be biased - I've never submitted a single coin for grading in my entire life. To ANY grading company.

__________________
knowledge ..... share it

airedale

I buy any PCI graded coin MS/PR 70 coin I see offered! Twenty years from now the market will know the difference. They have been in business since 1986.

__________________
John
Chance Favors The Prepared Mind

The_Cave_Troll

I don't think anyone is disagreeing on this point. The market has definately spoken. The question is will it continue to speak in the same manner. Maybe, maybe not.

__________________
"From time to time the Tree of Liberty must be refreshed with the blood of Patriots and of Tyrants."
-Thomas Jefferson

Speedy

Pretty much.....
More than likely they can't even grade....and they are buying a holder and NOT a coin....if people would buy the COIN they would know that if its in PCGS or NGC holder it doens't matter beans....that said....I buy both PCGS and NGC coins....BUT the coins must be graded by me before I buy them.
I bought a NGC MS63 Washinton quarter the other day....the coin would grade MS64 maybe 5 if it wasn't for some darker toning.....some people wouldn't have even looked at the coin.....just the lable on the holder.

Speedy

__________________
Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over

WINS - ANA - CONECA -

Midas

Well alrighty then,

Using your logic, The market is then full of thousands and thousands of stupid buyers who have bought and sold coins coins graded by either NGC, PCGS, ANACS, etc., over the last 20 years and I guess they don't know what they are talking about!

I'll tell you want...just at the FUN show or this weekend at the Palm Beach Show in West Palm Beach (I went Thursday), you are right...all of those dealers and buyers must be stupid...especially that dealer selling boxes of PR69UCAM NGC 2004 and 2005 nickels (no Bisons) for only $15 each, right directly across the NGC table! What an insult! Selling these coins for less than the submission costs. NGC was NOT too happy with this particular dealer as they are trying to convince possible submitters to spend more than what this dealer was selling these coins for!

When push comes to shove, free market forces eventually weed out the best from the worst in any product or service. People in a free market have the ability to shop, investigate, research and choose which product is the best. In due time (20 years is long enough, wouldn't you say?), this period of time has also allowed customers in the numismatic community to figure out which service holds more weight ($$$) that the others too. It is part of our free enterprise system. You can carry your flag into battle all you want, but you are definitely ignoring the facts.

[BTW...those civil war flag bearers that marched over an open field into battle were usually shot first]

As you pointed out, I just did my analysis on PR70 coins. Let's look at the POP reports of some relatively common date Lincolns. For instance. I used these dates, because the likelihood of these common date coins being submitted, cracked out, and resubmiited again are very slim:

1938-S Lincoln 1c - Red

NGC:

MS64: 22
MS65: 130
MS66: 591
MS67: 637
MS68: 2

PCGS:

MS64: 62
MS65: 417
MS66: 1582
MS67: 210
MS68: 0

1950 Lincoln 1c:

NGC:

MS64: 13
MS65: 65
MS66: 352
MS67: 67

PCGS:

MS64: 62
MS65: 142
MS66: 361
MS67: 17

1955-S Lincoln 1c

NGC:

MS65: 285
MS66: 2696
MS67: 406
MS68: 0

PCGS:

MS65: 404
MS66: 1735
MS67: 188
MS68: 1

You can call these POP reports "junK", but when you take into account actual prices realized from the likes of Heritage/Teletrade/eBay as well as what dealers say straight out at shows/shops, plus a 20 year run, it is pretty hard to ignore the facts.

Quality and service are all perception. Dollars sold and dollars spent are in fact really. After all, that is the beauty of numbers. 2 plus 2 can only equal ONE answer.

I would encourage all members to investigate these numbers and the dollars realized on your own. It is okay to ask "why"?? I did, and after talking with various dealers and all of my travels to various coin shops, I feel pretty good about my conclusions.

__________________

“It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.” - John Wooden

Speedy

I was saying that partly joking...see my ????

What I'm saying is that the people are NOT buying the coin....they are buying a holder---even dealers do that because they know that people will pay more for a lable with the letters PCGS on it more than the letters NGC....and yes I call that crazy...
I remember just a few weeks ago you were talking how NGC or maybe it was PCGS hadn't updated their POP for sometime and they aren't total right anyway....not everyone sends back in their lables....so yes in one "cents" of the word they are junk.....

As you say....I'm still new to this game (5 years) and I don't know how many years you have collected....and I'm still searching this out as always....I hope you are too.
From reports I read....from the many coins I view I still say NGC is more on the ball then PCGS in MOST cases.
When looking at FBL or FSB or FH there is NO way anyone can say that PCGS is better---that would not be fact.

Speedy

__________________
Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over

WINS - ANA - CONECA -

GDJMSP

And those conclusions are what - that PCGS has tougher grading standards than NGC does ? We can debate the subject until the proverbial cows come home - and we still won't prove anything. It's impossible to prove. And the bottom line is that it doesn't matter anyway for people will believe what they want to believe regradless of the fatcs, numbers, statistics and information provided.

My opinions are never gonna change and neither are yours Midas. I'm OK with that

__________________
knowledge ..... share it

Midas

I didn't give NGC enough time to adjust their POP report, but they did ...and I even mentioned it in a post-folow-up-post, so yes...the likes of PCGS and NGC will adjust their POP reports.

I substantiated my argumemt with published reports from BOTH PCGS and NGC. In my previous example with the common date Lincoln cents (easily found in RED condition), I demonstrated three examples of where NGC gave out way more MS67 grades then PCGS. Is this a coincidence? After examining many of these reports, the numbers are pretty much similar across the board. On an average of 3 to 1, NGC gives out way more 67 grades than PCGS. Are you going to tell me, coin for coin, that NGC is getting 3 times more MS67 coins than PCGS? Or is it that PCGS is 3 times more likely NOT to hand out these top grades? You don't think other collectors are asking these questions? I have been asked and I am asking myself!

You say that NGC grades conservatively, but from what I have seen (in hand), what I heard, what I have read, and what I have been told, I am basing my conclusions not on personal feelinigs. Frankly, I could care less who does a better job. I have no financial interest in either these TPG's...but I would be a fool not to make sure my collection was as liquid as possible in the event I need to sell...so if I have to submit my raw coins, I just HAVE to use PCGS. I would be a fool if I didn't!

As for the other factor, dollars realized...well explain this:

Previous Prizes Realized History from Teletrade (I used Teletrade because I look at this auction house as somewhere between Heritage and eBay...with auctions going on all of the time)

Mar 1 2006 Silver Dollar 1885CC PCGS 64 $644
Mar 1 2006 Silver Dollar 1885CC GSA Hoard NGC 64 $560
Feb 27 2006 Silver Dollar 1885CC PCGS 64 $644
Feb 27 2006 Silver Dollar 1885CC PCGS 64 $644

Jan 16 2006 Small Cent 1940D PCGS 67 RD $134
Jan 15 2006 Small Cent 1940D NGC 67 RD $63
Jan 11 2006 Small Cent 1940D NGC 67 RD $53
Jan 8 2006 Small Cent 1940D NGC 67 RD $63

Feb 12 2006 Small Cent 1947D PCGS 67 RD $134
Oct 30 2005 Small Cent 1947D NGC 67 RD $78
Sep 5 2005 Small Cent 1947D NGC 67 RD $78
Sep 4 2005 Small Cent 1947D NGC 67 RD $84

Nov 23 2005 Small Cent 1975S Proof PCGS 69 DCAM $246
Nov 21 2005 Small Cent 1975S Proof PCGS 69 DCAM $258
Oct 30 2005 Small Cent 1975S Proof NGC 69 RD Ultra Cam $95
Aug 15 2005 Small Cent 1975S Proof PCGS 69 DCAM $146

Jan 29 2006 Small Cent 1941 PCGS 66 RD $50
Nov 2 2005 Small Cent 1941 NGC 66 RD $17
Oct 31 2005 Small Cent 1941 PCGS 66 RD $41
Sep 25 2005 Small Cent 1941 PCGS 66 RD $35

Jan 18 2006 Nickel 1927 PCGS 66 $672
Jun 20 2005 Nickel 1927 NGC 66 $550
May 9 2005 Nickel 1927 NGC 66 $578

Feb 26 2006 Nickel 2005S Proof Ocean View NGC 70 Ultra Cam $47
Feb 8 2006 Nickel 2005S Proof Ocean View NGC 70 Ultra Cam $78
Feb 5 2006 Nickel 2005S Proof Ocean View NGC 70 Ultra Cam $68
Feb 1 2006 Nickel 2005S Proof Ocean View NGC 70 Ultra Cam $63

Feb 27 2006 Nickel 2005S Proof Western Waters PCGS 70 DCAM $168
Feb 27 2006 Nickel 2005S Proof Western Waters PCGS 70 DCAM $168
Feb 27 2006 Nickel 2005S Proof Western Waters PCGS 70 DCAM $168
Feb 27 2006 Nickel 2005S Proof Western Waters PCGS 70 DCAM $168

Mar 1 2006 Quarter 1950D PCGS 66 $63
Feb 19 2006 Quarter 1950D PCGS 66 $78
Jan 29 2006 Quarter 1950D NGC 66 $32
Nov 2 2005 Quarter 1950D NGC 66 $53

Jan 23 2006 Statehood Quarter 2002S Proof Ohio Silver NGC 70 Ultra Cam $63
Sep 18 2005 Statehood Quarter 2002S Proof Louisiana Silver NGC 70 Ultra Cam $63
Sep 14 2005 Statehood Quarter 2002S Proof Louisiana Silver PCGS 70 DCAM $588
Apr 17 2005 Statehood Quarter 2002S Proof Louisiana Silver PCGS 70 DCAM $468

Dec 14 2005 Statehood Quarter 2000S Proof New Hampshire PCGS 69 DCAM $14
Oct 31 2005 Statehood Quarter 2000S Proof New Hampshire PCGS 69 DCAM $14
Oct 23 2005 Statehood Quarter 2000S Proof New Hampshire PCGS 70 DCAM $336
Sep 14 2005 Statehood Quarter 2000S Proof New Hampshire Clad NGC 70 Ultra Cam $73
Apr 20 2005 Statehood Quarter 2000S Proof New Hampshire PCGS 70 DCAM $330

I could go on...but hey, I am open to all constructive arguments that I am way over my head if I don't buy the notion that NGC grades more conservaticely then PCGS. Look at the dollars...look at the reports. Feelings aside, I looking at facts and figures.

__________________

“It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.” - John Wooden

Speedy

How can they when not everyone sends in the lables after they crack the slab....the POP reports shouldn't be used to see who is better.

IYou aren't going to change your mind and I sure ain't going to change mine so is there need to keep on talking about the same thing....

Same with me....from what I see IN HAND and hear and read and have been told NGC is better and PCGS is just a fad that has been going on for 20 years....fad changes and it might change any time.
I have a suggestion.....as we know PCGS may be harder on MS/PF70 coins....but fact shows that NGC is harder on Franklin halves.....now here is my suggestion and I want to see what you think about it.

Send in the higher grade MS/PF70 coins to PCGS.....but wouldn't it be smarter to send the Franklins to NGC?
The hobby KNOWS that NGC is harder on them and prices show that they bring better prices in most cases (This may not be online....but at shows it is offen the case).
So if you are really wanting to get the most....I suggest sending your coins to not 1...but maybe 3 grading Co.....PCGS for some coins....ANACS for some and NGC for some also.

I would like to know what holes are in that thinking?

So were all of these coins the same looking....were the bag marks in the same place....was the toning looking the same on each coin.....each coin is like a fingerprint....if the coin has neat toning it will always bring more $$$....if one has a mark on the face but the other one has 3 but non on the face it also just make "cents" that the one that doesn't have the mark on the face will bring a better price.
You can't just look at numbers and prices...you have to look at the COIN......

You must be....because your not looking at the coins....only the holder (again...that was partly a joke )

Speedy

__________________
Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over

WINS - ANA - CONECA -

09S-V.D.B

The simple solution to this conundrum would be to send the same coin (coins for more definitive results, and also coins of different series) in to each of the three top tiers. Until someone does this on a decent sized scale, we really won't have any definitive results.

Midas

I just attended the Palm Beach show and NGC coins were NOT selling for higher prices for the same coin in the same grade compared to PCGS. My best buy...a 1909 VDB 1c graded by NGC as MS66RD for $100. Definitely cracking it out and sending it to PCGS. If it goes at the same grade (which I hope), I can dump it for at least $200, so after submissions and all...I will net about $80. Remember, in 2009...Lincolns will be super hot!

Speaking of your dear Franklins (as you keep bringing them as your lone example time and time again), I went to Heritage's realized auctions and found some. How about a 1950 FBL in 65 and 66 grades from PCGS and NGC. They have great pictures and all...check them out!

Auction 412, Lot 1607 Saturday, March 4, 2006 66 PCGS $575.00
Auction 412, Lot 1608 Saturday, March 4, 2006 66 PCGS $1,380.00
Auction 412, Lot 1609 Saturday, March 4, 2006 66 PCGS $1,380.00
Auction 394, Lot 4179 Saturday, January 7, 2006 66 NGC $546.25
Auction 394, Lot 4180 Saturday, January 7, 2006 66 PCGS $805.00
Auction 388, Lot 2946 Saturday, November 5, 2005 66 PCGS $747.50
Auction 384, Lot 3578 Saturday, September 24, 2005 66 PCGS $460.00
Auction 376, Lot 6532 Friday, June 3, 2005 66 PCGS $632.50
Auction 372, Lot 7853 Saturday, May 7, 2005 66 PCGS $1,035.00

Auction 66022, Lot 23241 Sunday, February 12, 2006 65 PCGS $149.50
Auction 26013, Lot 11546 Tuesday, January 17, 2006 65 PCGS $195.50
Auction 26012, Lot 13193 Tuesday, January 10, 2006 65 PCGS $143.75
Auction 399, Lot 7629 Monday, December 19, 2005 65 PCGS $184.00
Auction 65113, Lot 23462 Sunday, November 20, 2005 65 NGC $143.75
Auction 65105, Lot 24251 Sunday, October 30, 2005 65 PCGS $149.50
Auction 65104, Lot 23270 Sunday, October 23, 2005 65 NGC $126.50
Auction 25102, Lot 11343 Tuesday, October 11, 2005 65 PCGS $172.50
Auction 25101, Lot 13525 Tuesday, October 4, 2005 65 PCGS $149.50
Auction 25071, Lot 11567 Tuesday, July 5, 2005 65 PCGS $149.50
Auction 65071, Lot 23428 Sunday, July 3, 2005 65 NGC $148.35
Auction 25064, Lot 13329 Tuesday, June 28, 2005 65 PCGS $184.00
Auction 65062, Lot 24815 Sunday, June 12, 2005 65 PCGS $138.00
Auction 65042, Lot 23312 Sunday, April 10, 2005 65 PCGS $126.50
Auction 65041, Lot 24437 Sunday, April 3, 2005 65 PCGS $155.25
Auction 25035, Lot 11398 Tuesday, March 29, 2005 65 PCGS $140.30
Auction 65033, Lot 24167 Sunday, March 20, 2005 65 PCGS $195.50

How about a 1955 CAM Proof Franklin in 67 and 68 grades?:

Auction 389, Lot 8166 Monday, November 7, 2005 68 NGC $276.00
Auction 385, Lot 8859 Monday, September 26, 2005 68 NGC $299.00
Auction 385, Lot 8860 Monday, September 26, 2005 68 NGC $253.00
Auction 65053, Lot 24114 Sunday, May 15, 2005 68 NGC $304.75
Auction 369, Lot 697 Monday, March 28, 2005 68 PCGS $460.00
Auction 367, Lot 1575 Monday, February 28, 2005 68 NGC $287.50
Auction 361, Lot 2340 Monday, January 17, 2005 68 NGC $276.00
Auction 24094, Lot 12373 Tuesday, September 28, 2004 68 NGC $270.25
Auction 353, Lot 1214 Monday, August 23, 2004 68 NGC $195.50
Auction 321, Lot 1497 Monday, July 26, 2004 68 PCGS $506.00
Auction 349, Lot 8574 Saturday, June 5, 2004 68 PCGS $720.00
Auction 346, Lot 7920 Saturday, May 8, 2004 68 PCGS $747.50

Auction 66021, Lot 24166 Sunday, February 5, 2006 67 NGC $161.00
Auction 399, Lot 7653 Monday, December 19, 2005 67 PCGS $195.50
Auction 25073, Lot 11798 Tuesday, July 19, 2005 67 PCGS $172.50
Auction 25062, Lot 13776 Tuesday, June 14, 2005 67 PCGS $161.00
Auction 25054, Lot 11368 Tuesday, May 24, 2005 67 PCGS $149.50
Auction 25012, Lot 25934 Tuesday, January 11, 2005 67 NGC $172.50
Auction 278, Lot 1418 Monday, December 13, 2004 67 PCGS $184.00
Auction 64114, Lot 24555 Saturday, November 27, 2004 67 PCGS $195.50
Auction 359, Lot 1415 Monday, November 8, 2004 67 PCGS $166.75
Auction 24094, Lot 12372 Tuesday, September 28, 2004 67 NGC $195.50
Auction 353, Lot 1213 Monday, August 23, 2004 67 PCGS $178.25
Auction 352, Lot 4149 Saturday, August 21, 2004 67 PCGS $201.25
Auction 347, Lot 929 Monday, May 10, 2004 67 NGC $178.25

How about the last year of your beloved Franklins in a 68 DCAM grade!?!:

Auction 401, Lot 8481 Monday, February 13, 2006 68 NGC $374.90
Auction 389, Lot 8176 Monday, November 7, 2005 68 NGC $276.00
Auction 385, Lot 8874 Monday, September 26, 2005 68 NGC $373.75
Auction 385, Lot 8875 Monday, September 26, 2005 68 PCGS $460.00
Auction 25083, Lot 11454 Tuesday, August 16, 2005 68 PCGS $474.95
Auction 383, Lot 968 Monday, August 1, 2005 68 PCGS $431.25
Auction 25052, Lot 11285 Tuesday, May 10, 2005 68 PCGS $299.00
Action 25022, Lot 14041 Tuesday, February 8, 2005 68 NGC $253.00
Auction 361, Lot 2357 Monday, January 17, 2005 68 PCGS $402.50
Auction 361, Lot 2358 Monday, January 17, 2005 68 NGC $218.50
Auction 360, Lot 8065 Saturday, January 15, 2005 68 PCGS $373.75
Auction 278, Lot 1430 Monday, December 13, 2004 68 PCGS $299.00
Auction 356, Lot 1357 Monday, September 13, 2004 68 PCGS $603.75
Auction 352, Lot 4158 Saturday, August 21, 2004 68 PCGS $345.00
Auction 350, Lot 567 Monday, June 7, 2004 68 PCGS $322.00
Auction 347, Lot 935 Monday, May 10, 2004 68 NGC $235.75
Auction 24023, Lot 11554 Tuesday, February 17, 2004 68 PCGS $281.75
Auction 343, Lot 872 Monday, February 2, 2004 68 PCGS $207.00
Auction 336, Lot 7092 Saturday, January 10, 2004 68 NGC $189.75
Auction 335, Lot 1316 Monday, November 17, 2003 68 PCGS $258.75
Auction 331, Lot 1171 Monday, September 22, 2003 68 PCGS $235.75
Auction 330, Lot 7400 Saturday, September 20, 2003 68 PCGS $241.50
Auction 327, Lot 2126 Wednesday, August 6, 2003 68 NGC $184.00

You can call it a "20 year old fad", I call it REALITY. I am sure you can find an exception here or there...but I supported my argument with FACTS. Of course, my intention is not to convince you, but let other members research, look, and examine the existing data for themselves. Me? I like to support my opinions with research. It makes it easier for all readiing these posts.

At least I got you to agree that NGC is liberal in 70 grades compared to PCGS. I don't collect Franklins so I will have to take your word...but apparently, the rest of the Franklin buyers haven't got the memo.

__________________

“It's what you learn after you know it all that counts.” - John Wooden