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[Midas]

Well alrighty then,

Using your logic, The market is then full of thousands and thousands of stupid buyers who have bought and sold coins coins graded by either NGC, PCGS, ANACS, etc., over the last 20 years and I guess they don't know what they are talking about!

I'll tell you want...just at the FUN show or this weekend at the Palm Beach Show in West Palm Beach (I went Thursday), you are right...all of those dealers and buyers must be stupid...especially that dealer selling boxes of PR69UCAM NGC 2004 and 2005 nickels (no Bisons) for only $15 each, right directly across the NGC table! What an insult! Selling these coins for less than the submission costs. NGC was NOT too happy with this particular dealer as they are trying to convince possible submitters to spend more than what this dealer was selling these coins for!

When push comes to shove, free market forces eventually weed out the best from the worst in any product or service. People in a free market have the ability to shop, investigate, research and choose which product is the best. In due time (20 years is long enough, wouldn't you say?), this period of time has also allowed customers in the numismatic community to figure out which service holds more weight ($$$) that the others too. It is part of our free enterprise system. You can carry your flag into battle all you want, but you are definitely ignoring the facts.

[BTW...those civil war flag bearers that marched over an open field into battle were usually shot first]

As you pointed out, I just did my analysis on PR70 coins. Let's look at the POP reports of some relatively common date Lincolns. For instance. I used these dates, because the likelihood of these common date coins being submitted, cracked out, and resubmiited again are very slim:

1938-S Lincoln 1c - Red

NGC:

MS64: 22
MS65: 130
MS66: 591
MS67: 637
MS68: 2

PCGS:

MS64: 62
MS65: 417
MS66: 1582
MS67: 210
MS68: 0

1950 Lincoln 1c:

NGC:

MS64: 13
MS65: 65
MS66: 352
MS67: 67

PCGS:

MS64: 62
MS65: 142
MS66: 361
MS67: 17

1955-S Lincoln 1c

NGC:

MS65: 285
MS66: 2696
MS67: 406
MS68: 0

PCGS:

MS65: 404
MS66: 1735
MS67: 188
MS68: 1

You can call these POP reports "junK", but when you take into account actual prices realized from the likes of Heritage/Teletrade/eBay as well as what dealers say straight out at shows/shops, plus a 20 year run, it is pretty hard to ignore the facts.

Quality and service are all perception. Dollars sold and dollars spent are in fact really. After all, that is the beauty of numbers. 2 plus 2 can only equal ONE answer.

I would encourage all members to investigate these numbers and the dollars realized on your own. It is okay to ask "why"?? I did, and after talking with various dealers and all of my travels to various coin shops, I feel pretty good about my conclusions.